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To be disappointed in hearing that many UK woman drink during pregnancy [shock]

1003 replies

Leati · 18/07/2007 08:16

Yesterday, I was on a thread when some of the women started questioning about US policy on drinking alcohol during pregnancies. One of the women had heard that if you have a glass of wine, you could be arrested. I assured her that wasn't true but there was chance that if you were visibly pregnant that the restaurant or bar might exercise their right to refuse service. And if a pediatrician became suspicious of drug or alcohol abuse, they could have the baby?s blood tested at birth. If the baby is found to have these in their blood, the child will be taken away. Another woman pitched that she found it disturbing that restaurants had signs warning pregnant women.

I couldn't believe what I was hearing. These women seemed to believe it was actually okay to drink during their pregnancies. Hadn't they heard of Fetal Alcohol Syndrome. So today, I did a little research and was shocked to learn that it is a big problem in the UK and that there is little education about it there.

Women who are angry over mothers choosing the bottle over nursing are damaging their children by drinking alcohol. This is not minor damage, in some case it is equivalent to severe mental retardation and in others it less obvious cognitive problems. Overall nearly 10% of babies born in the UK are suffering from some sort of cognitive problems directly related to alcohol exposure in the womb.

What broke my heart the most is that I have been on this site and I know that the mothers on this site care so much for their children. That while I may not always agree with everything said and our perspectives are not always the same, that we share a common love for our children. So I felt compelled to start this thread and share the information. I hope that you will share it, with your loved ones and it may spread.

I have attached some sites so you can research this yourself. These sites are both from the UK and the US.

www.fasaware.co.uk/

www.bbc.co.uk/insideout/west/series2/fetal_alcohol_syndro mfaspregnancydrinkinglearning_difficulties.shtml

www.healthychildrenproject.org/glossa ry/

OP posts:
Leati · 18/07/2007 10:02

bellabelly

I would never wish any harm to your baby but I am not going to tell you it okay to drink alcohol when there is plenty of evidence that shows its not. You just want to ignore that evidence and only listen to those who tell you what you want to hear.

OP posts:
eleusis · 18/07/2007 10:02

"I am really not trying to be a bitch to all of you, unlike your treatment of me."

Now that was a counterproductive statement.

Staceym11 · 18/07/2007 10:02

i can see a point, yes alcohol is a dangerous substance and it is possible that it could harm your unborn child....but surely if you are that worried about the effects of alcohol on your unborn child you will abstain from it forever, save them having second hand effects (i.e. if you get an alcohol related illness later in life)

not everything is 100% safe.

if you were never to put a newborn at risk you couldn't eat for fear of food poisening, never go to hospital for fear of an infection/disease, never cross the road for fear of being run over......

the list could go on. you choose to do things in life with a measure of calculated risk. thats what life is about.

i drank during my pregnancies. with dd i didnt know i was pregnant until 6 weeks (unplanned) and at 4weeks i went out on a drinking binge and got slaughtered. felt so guilty my whole pregnancy because of FAS and didnt touch another drop. my dd is fine, no behavioural issues (other than being 2!!! ), no disablities, perfectly normal, if not above average. with ds i took a calculated risk, if dd was born fine having been subjected to that level of alcohol early on it would not do harm to him for me to have possibly 1 glass of wine a week (at most) in the later stages of pregnancy, guess what, he's fine too.

you cannot preach to women and basically say 'you are a baby making machine you have no choice and this is the way you will live' it isnt going to work.

Highlander · 18/07/2007 10:03

actusally Leati, for less than 3 units of alcohol/week (not all at once) numerous studies have shown no link to foetal impairment. 3-5 units/week - the jury is out. 5 units or more - definite damage.

hatwoman · 18/07/2007 10:03

bellabelly - I linked to it below - it was one of the best things on "advice" and pg I've read.

bellabelly · 18/07/2007 10:04

Hatwoman - yes, I agree - a lone voice of reason... v well-written and moderate.

Enid · 18/07/2007 10:05

Leati you've probably got more risk of dying in some pointless terrorist attack than one of your kids having FAS. Channel your energy into trying to change your ridiculous country's foreign policy rather than this absurd doom-mongering.

Leati · 18/07/2007 10:05

I am not trying to villafy you. I really am not. I am trying to show you that there is plenty of evidence that show that alcohol (even in small amounts) caused damage to unborn babies.

In the US there used to be a television ad that showed a woman smoking a cigeratte then a few minutes later you see her unborn infant smoking it in the womb. They showed the commercial to educate people.

OP posts:
strawberry · 18/07/2007 10:05

Leati - I think this in an interesting thread and you have previously started some similar threads that I have been interested in so don't get the hump!

We HAVE read the evidence. We are inteliigent. I work in medical research so am well versed in analysing evidence. I think the it's the tone of some of your postings that have provoked. Although probably not intentionally....

bellabelly · 18/07/2007 10:05

Leati
"I would never wish any harm to your baby "- er, gee, thanks?

SueW · 18/07/2007 10:05

There's an article in Red magazine this month about drinking in pregnancy which points out that the recent guidelines are based on nothing new.

It also says something like (sorry not to hand) that it's possible 9% of women drink to excess during pregnancy - can't remember how they defined excess. So 91% of women are being told to stop drinking because 9% don't take any notice of the previous 1 or 2 glasses a week guideline. Chances are those 9% are the ones who take bog all notice of guidelines anyway!

LittleLupin · 18/07/2007 10:06

Leati, we are not being bitchy, we are disagreeing. You do not have the right to tell us what to do or believe. We all KNOW about the research. We are intelligent women. It is your holier than thou attitude which is causing this ruckus.

Leati · 18/07/2007 10:06

There is no safe amount of alcohol for pregnant women
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Article Date: 13 Sep 2004 - 14:00 PDT

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According to Dr Raja Mukherjee, of St George's Medical School, UK, there is no safe amount of alcohol for pregnant women. He says that even a small amount can harm the unborn child in some cases. The UK government currently advises pregnant women to restrict their drinking to small amounts - two units per week, one unit is about one small glass of wine.

Dr Raja Mukherjee spoke at the Foetal Alcohol Syndrome Aware UK Syndrome Conference, London, UK.

According to Dr Mukherjee, the number of babies who suffer from fetal alcohol syndrome is much higher than the current two per thousand - he reckons the number is more likely to be around one per hundred. He says that many babies are misdiagnosed.

The UK government advises pregnant women to limit their alcohol intake to one or two units per week (about two small glasses of wine per week).

According to studies, says Dr. Mukherjee, any amount, however small, is risky for the unborn baby.

This does not mean that every pregnant mother who has a couple of drinks will have a damaged child. It means that a doctor cannot advise the pregnant mother to have just one or two drinks if she wants to be sure she is protecting her baby.

Dr Mukherjee says that many cases are going unrecognised (fetal alcohol syndrome). He is sure the true number of cases is about one baby in every hundred.

Dr Mukherjee added "The brain develops throughout pregnancy and the most vulnerable period is the first three months - the first trimester - when people may not even know they are pregnant. The current recommendation of one to two units is ambiguous. The only guaranteed safe way is not to drink at all when you are pregnant."

WHAT IS FETAL ALCOHOL SYNDROME?

Fetal alcohol syndrome (FAS) is a group of birth defects caused by drinking alcohol during pregnancy. Children with FAS have many physical, mental and behavioral problems and may be mentally retarded. They are small, underweight babies. As they get older, they often have trouble with learning, attention, memory, and problem solving. They may have poor coordination, be impulsive, and have speech and hearing problems.

The effects of FAS last a lifetime. Most children with FAS have trouble with work and with personal relationships when they become adults. Many have legal problems.

FAS cannot be reversed, but it can be prevented by not drinking alcohol when pregnant.

What are the most common birth defects or problems of FAS?

Children with FAS have:

-- Facial features that are not normal, such as a thin upper lip, short nose, short eye openings, and flat cheeks and philtrum (the groove in the middle of the upper lip).

-- Growth retardation. They are small and underweight from birth.

-- Brain damage. They may be mentally retarded or have problems with development, learning, and behavior.

All of these birth defects are caused by drinking alcohol in pregnancy.

If a child has some but not all of the alcohol-related problems of FAS, they are sometimes said to have fetal alcohol effects (FAE). Two newer terms are:

-- Alcohol-related birth defects (ARBD). This term is used when a child does not have FAS, but does have one or more physical birth defects caused by alcohol. These may be physical defects of the face, eyes, ears, heart, brain, or limbs.

-- Alcohol-related neurodevelopmental disorder (ARND). This term is used when a child does not have FAS, but does have some brain damage caused by alcohol. Children with ARND are harder to identify than children with ARBD or FAS. They often have trouble in school and have behavior problems.

How does alcohol cause these problems?

When a pregnant woman drinks beer, wine, hard liquor, or other alcoholic beverages, alcohol gets into her blood. The alcohol in the mother's blood goes to her baby through the umbilical cord. When the alcohol enters the baby's body, it can cause birth defects. Drinking alcohol in the early stages of pregnancy can cause the facial and other physical defects of FAS. Drinking alcohol at any time during pregnancy can slow down the baby's growth and affect the baby's brain. There is no time during pregnancy when there is no chance at all of hurting your baby if you drink alcohol.

Can FAS be cured?

No. But children with FAS can be helped. They may need hearing aids or eyeglasses. They should get regular medical care. When they go to school, they need special help. As children with FAS get older, they may need special services and support to help them live on their own.

OP posts:
mrsmalaprop · 18/07/2007 10:07

The thing is, Leati, that in the main people on here are taking your opinion into account. It is not a case of listening to what we want to hear, it is that we hve weighed up the evidence and found nothing credible to suggest that a couple of units now and then causes damage. I simply can not see how it can be proved that cognitive damage is caused by a small amounts of alcohol. How can you have a controlled experiment to prove this during a pregnancy? Genes, environment, diet, stress... all have an impact too.

We don't mean to be 'bitchy' and I don't believe anyone is attacking you personally, we are just crying out for a balanced debate and for you to prove us wrong with a reasoned, well thought out argument instead of quoting isolated studies and statistics at us.

Leati · 18/07/2007 10:07

It is the leading cause of mental retardation in this country.

OP posts:
eleusis · 18/07/2007 10:08

What do you suppose the effect are to a new born who breathes LA smog? Are you in LA by chance?

Let's start t hread urging every reposible parent in Greater Los Angeles to move to South Dakota where the air quality is better. And not listen to any of their points about why moving out of California is actually not a practical or even snsible.

Leati · 18/07/2007 10:08

How can I prevent fetal alcohol syndrome?
The best thing you can do is stop drinking when you are thinking about getting pregnant. If you get pregnant, quit drinking alcohol and drink other beverages, like water or fruit juices.

Return to top

Will it hurt my baby even if I don't drink every day?
Yes. Even small amounts of alcohol can be harmful. Because no amount of alcohol can be considered safe, pregnant women should avoid all alcohol during the entire pregnancy. (Drinks with alcohol in them include beer, wine, hard liquor and wine coolers.)

"Binge drinking"having 5 or more drinks at a timeis particularly dangerous for your baby, because it makes the level of alcohol in your blood very high very quickly. So, even if you don't drink every day, you may put your baby at risk for fetal alcohol syndrome.

OP posts:
Enid · 18/07/2007 10:10

"It is the leading cause of mental retardation in this country."

[chains hands to sides]

bellabelly · 18/07/2007 10:10

Leati, out of interest, why are you particularly crusading on this issue? It feels like you're on a bit of a mission - any particular reason?

Leati · 18/07/2007 10:10

Of FAS individuals between ages 12 and 51:

? 95% will have mental health problems

? 55% will be confined in prison, drug or alcohol treatment centers or a mental institution.

? 60% will have "disturbed school experience"

? 60% will have trouble with the law

? 52% will exhibit inappropriate sexual behavior

Of FAS individuals between 21-51:

? 82% will not be able to live independently

? 70% will have problems with employment

? More then 50% of males and 70% of females will have alcohol and drug problems

OP posts:
mrsmalaprop · 18/07/2007 10:10

MORE STATS AAAAARRRRGH

elesbells · 18/07/2007 10:11

leati. i dont think anyone has bitched on here, its just hard to have a reasoned debate with google!

posting such long quotes is tedious to read and you loose your point by barking at people and calling the uk system uneducated...it gets peoples back up.

whilst your entitled to your opinion you cannot judge people on their choices. nobody here has told you you must drink alchohol, nobody has been slated for not drinking. In the same vein you cannot preach that pregnat woman should not drink, its all about choice.

Leati · 18/07/2007 10:11

"We must prevent all injury and illness that is preventable in society, and alcohol-related birth defects are completely preventable," Dr. Carmona said. "We do not know what, if any, amount of alcohol is safe. But we do know that the risk of a baby being born with any of the fetal alcohol spectrum disorders increases with the amount of alcohol a pregnant woman drinks, as does the likely severity of the condition. And when a pregnant woman drinks alcohol, so does her baby. Therefore, it's in the child's best interest for a pregnant woman to simply not drink alcohol."

OP posts:
eleusis · 18/07/2007 10:11

? 52% will exhibit inappropriate sexual behavior

Ah, so that's what happened to Bill Clinton, then?

LittleLupin · 18/07/2007 10:11

PLEASE STOP CUTTING AND PASTING, WE CAN ALL GOOGLE!

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