To be disappointed in hearing that many UK woman drink during pregnancy [shock]

[Leati]

Yesterday, I was on a thread when some of the women started questioning about US policy on drinking alcohol during pregnancies. One of the women had heard that if you have a glass of wine, you could be arrested. I assured her that wasn't true but there was chance that if you were visibly pregnant that the restaurant or bar might exercise their right to refuse service. And if a pediatrician became suspicious of drug or alcohol abuse, they could have the baby?s blood tested at birth. If the baby is found to have these in their blood, the child will be taken away. Another woman pitched that she found it disturbing that restaurants had signs warning pregnant women.

I couldn't believe what I was hearing. These women seemed to believe it was actually okay to drink during their pregnancies. Hadn't they heard of Fetal Alcohol Syndrome. So today, I did a little research and was shocked to learn that it is a big problem in the UK and that there is little education about it there.

Women who are angry over mothers choosing the bottle over nursing are damaging their children by drinking alcohol. This is not minor damage, in some case it is equivalent to severe mental retardation and in others it less obvious cognitive problems. Overall nearly 10% of babies born in the UK are suffering from some sort of cognitive problems directly related to alcohol exposure in the womb.

What broke my heart the most is that I have been on this site and I know that the mothers on this site care so much for their children. That while I may not always agree with everything said and our perspectives are not always the same, that we share a common love for our children. So I felt compelled to start this thread and share the information. I hope that you will share it, with your loved ones and it may spread.

I have attached some sites so you can research this yourself. These sites are both from the UK and the US.

www.fasaware.co.uk/

www.bbc.co.uk/insideout/west/series2/fetal_alcohol_syndro mfaspregnancydrinkinglearning_difficulties.shtml

www.healthychildrenproject.org/glossa ry/

bozza, so true! And tbh, for the first 4 months the whole idea of a drink made me want to be sick. I did have the occasionally glass of wine after that though and do not feel guilty about it.

Okay so going by Leati's comments, pregnant women should also avoid butter and lettuce (last two causes of listeria outbreaks in the UK). Additionally, we should probably avoid hospitals and medical practioners due to the possibility of contracting MRSA.

The causes of listeria outbreaks are fact Leati and that MRSA can be caught from being in hospital is also fact. So do you think it's therefore sensible for pregnant women to "indulge" in the above practices?

I think the phemonomena we are observing is a nation becoming so risk averse that they are becoming life averse.
Life is filled with risk and danger - childhood ( if it is to be beneficial) NEEDS to contain risk. It is part of the process by which we become adult and responsible. It is the JOY of life to embrace it and live it and any activity holds some innate risk.
When I was pregnant I still regarded myself as a person and as a wife and mother. that included a glass of wine at my sisters wedding and some lovely evenings with my hubby planning and dreaming and yes a glass of wine.
The fact that I did that does not make me a bad person. It did not put my child at any measureable risk and the best bit was that when my kids came out they were met by a happy, contented and relaxed mother.
My kids would choose a living breathing mother to an incubator any day.

Sorry, haven't read all thread.

TBH I agree with Leati in general. When I was pregnant 4 years ago, the advice was still relatively relaxed. It's getting less and less relaxed all the time. No-one could possibly regard alcohol as a good substance for their baby's health now IMO.

The thing is though that, given British culture, most women will have drunk something, perhaps quite a lot, before finding out they are pregnant (I certainly did). There is absolutely no point in scaring women who are pregnant out of their wits when all will probably be fine.

But I do think in five years or so the advice will be a lot stronger. Just like it is with smoking now.

More commonly known as the total of all three disorders, Foetal Alcohol Spectrum Disorder (FASD) is estimated to have a prevalence of around 1 in 300. With 621,469 births in England and Wales alone in 2003 that means that 186,441 children have been affected. The UK site this statistic comes from is full of more information.

hear hear pagwatch!

I think it is a woman's choice whether or not she continues to drink alcohol during pregnancy, I didn't drink any when I was pg as I wasn't 100% sure that if wouldn't harm my baby, but I would never lecture a woman who did choose to have a few drinks while pg.

"And if the baby is born with alcohol or drugs in thier blood, they are taken away. "

I'm not convinced of this. In fact I've never heard it before this thread. Maybe it happens in Compton -- are you in So Cal? And even if this allowed by California law, how often does it actually happen? Is it law in other states?

www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/13332.php

Since the you didn't like the last site I provided try this one. Note this is a UK doctor who is trying to educate the UK about the dangers.

haven't read whole thread
but i drank the odd glass of wine when pg with both DDs (after about 20 weeks, before then too sick)

i would do it again if pg again.

my GP told me a couple of small glasses of wine a week was absolutely fine.

and i think there is far more harm by drinking piles of diet coke (aspartame), too much fish with toxins etc. than there is by the odd glass of wine ffs.

My cut and past condition is getting worse. I swear to god I think I need a drink !

the whole point is that it is ADVICE.

having worked as part of the system, albeit not medical,i am aware of just how much advice is about policy, ass-covering and litigation.

infact most of the advice we receive re; child care in general is tainted.

it is more about social boundaries and less about the actual basic and natural needs of the child.

eleusis

Not every baby is tested at birth for drugs and alcohol. But if the infants or mothers doctor (they have different Doctors, each specializing in thier own field) are suspicious of drug or alcohol abuse they do have the infant tested. If the baby test positive, then social services will take the baby away until the mother meets specific requirements.

Please stop quoting stats at us. They don't help and I don't trust them anyway. They are not evidence of anything as they can be so easily manipulated.

Leati, cutting and pasting from a wiki site referencing a parent driven website is not what I call effective research

leati that article says to restrict alchohol to one or two units a week...which is what is being agreed by most on here.

god i must go now...i feel like im debating with a google search engine!

According to Dr Raja Mukherjee, of St George's Medical School, UK, there is no safe amount of alcohol for pregnant women. He says that even a small amount can harm the unborn child in some cases. The UK government currently advises pregnant women to restrict their drinking to small amounts - two units per week, one unit is about one small glass of wine.

Dr Raja Mukherjee spoke at the Foetal Alcohol Syndrome Aware UK Syndrome Conference, London, UK.

According to Dr Mukherjee, the number of babies who suffer from fetal alcohol syndrome is much higher than the current two per thousand - he reckons the number is more likely to be around one per hundred. He says that many babies are misdiagnosed.

The UK government advises pregnant women to limit their alcohol intake to one or two units per week (about two small glasses of wine per week).

According to studies, says Dr. Mukherjee, any amount, however small, is risky for the unborn baby.

This does not mean that every pregnant mother who has a couple of drinks will have a damaged child. It means that a doctor cannot advise the pregnant mother to have just one or two drinks if she wants to be sure she is protecting her baby.

Dr Mukherjee says that many cases are going unrecognised (fetal alcohol syndrome). He is sure the true number of cases is about one baby in every hundred.

Dr Mukherjee added "The brain develops throughout pregnancy and the most vulnerable period is the first three months - the first trimester - when people may not even know they are pregnant. The current recommendation of one to two units is ambiguous. The only guaranteed safe way is not to drink at all when you are pregnant."

Read the article....yourself
www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/13332.php

Can we PLEASE not label American with the brush Leati seems to be painting with. Her generalisations about Ameica are not in line with my experience.

I am not entirely opposed to the idea that pregnant women should be held accountable for damage they do to their unborn children by choice (i.e. excessive alcohol and drugs). However, it is not generally an accepted fact that a drink here and there constitutes such damage. I certainly don't think that. I have seen someone drink excessively through pregnancy. Baby was/is fine. No action was taken by medical or legal professionals. This was in America.

Leati - what age did you introduce solids your children given that the 10 year old evidence and advice from the WHO and UNICEF recommends exclusive bresatfeeding until 6 months. Presumably you followed this to the letter as well?

Ladies
I don't know what to say. When I first got on here tonight, I thought it was simply a case of not knowing. Now I am beginning to think it is a case, of wanting to believe whatever advise lets you do as you please.

I am not trying to be insulting but this really, really saddens me .

How about this:

"The principal findings of this systematic review of the fetal effects of low-to-moderate alcohol consumption in pregnancy were that, for most outcomes, there was no consistent evidence of adverse effect across different studies."

From from a review commissioned by the Department of Health for England from the National Perinatal

But of course these are British scientists, so doubtless wrong...

Hey why don't you Google "Creationism"? There's tonnes of article "proving" it. So it MUST be true!

All these websites, links, quotes etc are all saying the same thing. We don't need any more 'evidence'. There is no evidence that 1/2 units is dangerous however that doesn't mean doctors can say alcohol is safe. that's why in the absence of data, (some) doctors say best to abstain all together. I believe this is due to litigation not evidence. Also IMO there is a totally different attitude to alcohol between Europe and US which is contributing to opinions on this thread.

doctors years ago argued that breast feeding was not good for the mother and recommended formula!

how time changes outlook.

Maybe next we'll be told all high saturated fat foods are banned too! After all who knows what damage you could cause if these are eaten to excess! Chemicals, caffeine, take away food the list is endless. Soon we'll all be given a quota of fish and veg to eat every day, pregnancy could become a bit like a prison term.
I didn't drink during the first 5 months of pregnancy, then I only had a glass of champagne (at my own wedding!) and the odd half glass here and there, but this was my choice and everyone has the right to read all the facts and make there own decision, that is why it is called the free world!

this is dull.
where's xenia? didn't she have some good comments about americans on a thread a couple of weeks ago

sorry, naughty, couldn't resist.