To be disappointed in hearing that many UK woman drink during pregnancy [shock]

[Leati]

Yesterday, I was on a thread when some of the women started questioning about US policy on drinking alcohol during pregnancies. One of the women had heard that if you have a glass of wine, you could be arrested. I assured her that wasn't true but there was chance that if you were visibly pregnant that the restaurant or bar might exercise their right to refuse service. And if a pediatrician became suspicious of drug or alcohol abuse, they could have the baby?s blood tested at birth. If the baby is found to have these in their blood, the child will be taken away. Another woman pitched that she found it disturbing that restaurants had signs warning pregnant women.

I couldn't believe what I was hearing. These women seemed to believe it was actually okay to drink during their pregnancies. Hadn't they heard of Fetal Alcohol Syndrome. So today, I did a little research and was shocked to learn that it is a big problem in the UK and that there is little education about it there.

Women who are angry over mothers choosing the bottle over nursing are damaging their children by drinking alcohol. This is not minor damage, in some case it is equivalent to severe mental retardation and in others it less obvious cognitive problems. Overall nearly 10% of babies born in the UK are suffering from some sort of cognitive problems directly related to alcohol exposure in the womb.

What broke my heart the most is that I have been on this site and I know that the mothers on this site care so much for their children. That while I may not always agree with everything said and our perspectives are not always the same, that we share a common love for our children. So I felt compelled to start this thread and share the information. I hope that you will share it, with your loved ones and it may spread.

I have attached some sites so you can research this yourself. These sites are both from the UK and the US.

www.fasaware.co.uk/

www.bbc.co.uk/insideout/west/series2/fetal_alcohol_syndro mfaspregnancydrinkinglearning_difficulties.shtml

www.healthychildrenproject.org/glossa ry/

I think Holbein flattered though didn't he? that's the theory anyhow.

FAS is largely unknown here, and probably undiagnosed as a result?

I have, a few times, seen the 'classic' FAS facial symptoms around. But not often.

They have another fetal alcohol disorder in North America, which is much fuzzier and (I think) often really caused by childhood neglect, rather than alcohol in pregnancy ...

Yes that was the theory but according to the book I read (not sure of authenticity)he sternly told her (Anne) that he had to paint a true likeness.

I found an interesting paper on FAS published by the Australian National Expert Advisory Committee on Alcohol - part of which looked at national differences and reveiws many of the studeis available form around the world at that point.

"The review by Sampson (1997) reported the incidence of FAS for different time periods at two U.S. sites and one site in France. At each of these centres the mothers of children with FAS were characterised by poverty and alcoholism" (my emphasis)

They cautioned against reading too much into national differences and asserted that the commonality was far more likely to split along socio economic lines than national. They diod not find significant differnces comparing France to the US once you had standardised socio-economic groups and type of FAS measured.

Leati - if you use that in your article (and I really think you should) my fee is an extraordinarily reasonable £250.

Oh an I didn't drink during pregnancy so no need to feel that you're funding a lush.

I live in London too, but haven't had any call to use this term in conversation for years afaik.

Certainly if I was speaking about a specific person I would refer to whatever their specific issue was (learning disability, behavioural disorder...whatever) but when you are talking about what effect a drug might have on a person, I just thought that mental retardation would be the correct term?

I certainly wouldn't say it was largely unknown here at all, NQC. People with dysmorphic features tend to be referred to geneticists as a default, but I think it's pretty widely recognised that you can do differential diagnoses on FAS and other congenital abnormalities.

Makes sense to explain it in socio-economic terms rather than geographical differences

I don't think she's a journo tho, I think she's an amateur trying to be clever.

My reasons for this conclusion:

1. has no idea what constitutes news
2. writes like a teenager doing an essay
3. thinks cut and paste = research

obviously not a reference to you there ladylush

Fair enough, tamum - I guess I meant it's less well-known here than back home. But then, I had two nieces who were diagnosed with whatever the not-quite-FAS disorder is (oh, and their mother definately drank loads in pregnancy).

And restaurants and bars in Toronto have warnings about not drinking while pregnant in all the loos.

Maybe that says more about Toronto than FAS, though.

Sounds like she works for Murdoch to me Meow!

And yeah, Leati is obviously not a journo.

Journalists do quote MN conversations all the time in articles, and don't pay for the priviledge. This is in the public domain, anyway, isn't it?

they do definately diagnose fAS here

and to be fair most wines bottle and beer DO warn about the dangers of drinking whilst pregnant

arf! good point sweetydarling

Using quotes from a thread already in the public domain is one thing, but having been a journo myself I feel strongly that if you are going to try to provoke people into providing you with material, you need to ID yourself.

Press Complaints Commission Code of Conduct states: "Engaging in misrepresentation or subterfuge, can generally be justified only in the public interest and then only when the material cannot be obtained by other means."

Mind you, OP only claimed to be collecting material after shed been comprehensively shot down, and I agree (well, hope) that her writing style makes it unlikely that shes a professional. So maybe there is a grey area.

Of course not Kew, but since I am a lush, I would like enough money so that I can buy 8 cans of Special Brew each day of the month. I can't do the maths because I am in the early stages of alcohol induced dementia.

'is it just me, or has Leati done every US mum on here s great diservice my coming over as the stereotypical American, when most we know are not. Please dont tar all Americans with this brush, we have some lovely ones on here. '

No, it's not just you.

My husband and children are British - my children are British people who happen to have an American mother - and I get extremely pissed off when people slag off their culture when they know absolute FA about it.

How nice to know some of the attitudes my children will encounter when they visit my native country - on a US passport, no less.

I asked you earlier to please refrain from insulting British culture and people if you were going to use this board, Leati.

Asked. Nicely.

I am PMSL at the idea that Brits on a US board, lecturing about global warming, would be well-received.

Nobody really likes people from other countries wandering in to complain about everything they're doing wrong. Funny, that.

This thread moves fast! Seems to cover everything. Henry VIII had syphallis and it went to his head. It's not good if dad has sypalis. Mrs Beeton contracted syphallis too and complications of the disease killed her babies and her in the end. It's not all booze before birth you know .

America for all its greatness suffers some of the worst poverty in the world. I expect that people suffering in grinding third world poverty with no means of escape or help to change will take whatever they can get their hands on to alleviate the grimness of life. It isn't fair to bash women for having a drink while pg without talking seriously about poverty. In Britain we do not have the same levels of 3rd world degradation, but saying that, where the US goes, Uk often follows.

Leati, please take a look in your own back yard.

I'm also very disappointed that she didn;t incorporate my bedding injuries comment

It's really sad that Leati started another thread where she was moaning about offensive and ignorant intra-cultural comments (Xenia claiming that most Americans were creationists) -- I responded sympathetically to say there's a lot of cultural misrepresentation by the UK and US media.

Now Leati proposes to go off and write an article about another culture with blatent misrepresentations in it (the bottle-feeding comment, if nothing else).... ARRRRRGGGGHHH.. Remind me not to bother, next time.

A measure of how irritated Leati has me is that I am actually relunctant to post this because it does rather support her argument.

However, here goes. I thought it worth investigating national guidelines on drinking in pregnancy other than the UK and USA. The best summary I can find is that of the International Centre for Alcohol Policies. To save you all from reading it all (although obviously feel free) it appears that Britain was in an international minority by not advocating total abstinence during pregnancy. Canada, Iceland, Israel, the Netherlands, New Zealand, Switzerland, Sweden and, most startling of all, France , have official policies which recommend total abstinence.

No doubt these policies are driven by the truth that there is no provably safe level of alcohol consumption in pregnancy. For me, Britain's anomolous position can only be explained by the enormous significance that booze has in our culture, a significance that as I get older I start to regret more and more

Reluctant.

Reluctant

God I'm so irritated I can't type...