To be disappointed in hearing that many UK woman drink during pregnancy [shock]

[Leati]

Yesterday, I was on a thread when some of the women started questioning about US policy on drinking alcohol during pregnancies. One of the women had heard that if you have a glass of wine, you could be arrested. I assured her that wasn't true but there was chance that if you were visibly pregnant that the restaurant or bar might exercise their right to refuse service. And if a pediatrician became suspicious of drug or alcohol abuse, they could have the baby?s blood tested at birth. If the baby is found to have these in their blood, the child will be taken away. Another woman pitched that she found it disturbing that restaurants had signs warning pregnant women.

I couldn't believe what I was hearing. These women seemed to believe it was actually okay to drink during their pregnancies. Hadn't they heard of Fetal Alcohol Syndrome. So today, I did a little research and was shocked to learn that it is a big problem in the UK and that there is little education about it there.

Women who are angry over mothers choosing the bottle over nursing are damaging their children by drinking alcohol. This is not minor damage, in some case it is equivalent to severe mental retardation and in others it less obvious cognitive problems. Overall nearly 10% of babies born in the UK are suffering from some sort of cognitive problems directly related to alcohol exposure in the womb.

What broke my heart the most is that I have been on this site and I know that the mothers on this site care so much for their children. That while I may not always agree with everything said and our perspectives are not always the same, that we share a common love for our children. So I felt compelled to start this thread and share the information. I hope that you will share it, with your loved ones and it may spread.

I have attached some sites so you can research this yourself. These sites are both from the UK and the US.

www.fasaware.co.uk/

www.bbc.co.uk/insideout/west/series2/fetal_alcohol_syndro mfaspregnancydrinkinglearning_difficulties.shtml

www.healthychildrenproject.org/glossa ry/

FFS.

This is the UK!

This is a BRITISH-based board with the vast majority of users BRITISH or living in teh UK.

Please have some respect for how people do things here - this board is voluntary, after all.

I went off booze as soon as I fell pregnant - and mostly everything else.

But I quite fancied the odd shandy whilst pregnant with DD1, who was born in the hottest summer in the UK on record. It was an extremely warm spring as well.

Right before she was born I quite fancied a pina colada.

Glad the Pregnancy Gestapo wasn't around to police my body.

I am not British, but my husband and children are. It really pisses me off when people who don't even live here slag off their culture.

I thought you had procured that British passport.

Does naturalised Brit count, eleusis?

Of course, DH would beg to differ. He is 'Scottish'

Of course we are all wrong and Leati is correct. Our comments are rude and simplistic and this is all a clear manifestation of the FAS we all suffered as a direct result of our mums having the odd tipple in PG. Thank heavens we have some good old fundamentalists around to put us straight. We are not worthy.

Can we now all change the debate to creatonism please. This thread is sooo interfering with my lunchtime drinking/smoking/shooting crack habits...

I ate a lot of boozy mince pies whilst pregnant with DD2, born 10 December.

I've already got the fruit and mixed peel for my mincemeat soaking in brandy .

sprouts on next week is it?

Oh no, katy, if they're not on already, you've missed the window for sproutage!

well maybe i'll put them on soon for christmas 2008

Spouts are minging.

blimey!!
just skimread this thread, and looked at some of the juicier bitching in more detail, after it got mentioned on a vaccine discussion thread. how nosy am i??

just a warning about much of the statistics coming from "march of dimes", in case it hasnt been mentioned before, but they are evangelical rightwing anti-abortionists. which is not to say they might not also quote accurate statistics, but just so you are warned.

i went with the one glass of wine a week in pregnancy, and seeing as i was down from about 40 units a week i was quite impressed with myself. i did heaps of research first though. the first 3 months, when you are less likely to know you are pregnant, seem to be the most dangerous wouldn't you know! anyway, my walking, talking 9 mth old is showing no signs of slowed down motor neuron skills (even if his mother can't spell)

thought it might interest you all to know that somewhere back in the pregnancy day, i read a really interesting article about alcoholism in the USA. drinking in the UK amongst women is much more likely to be social and occassional, and in the USA there are many more teetotallers (mostly white and middleclass) and many more alcoholics (mostly working class). the divide is greater, and therefore one might confidently conclude not a comparable population. in Europe, many moreof the female population drink in moderation. and the scare over FAS is less. so it might be good advice in the UK to suggest occassional drinking is okay (and in France, Spain, Switzerland etc etc), andgood advice in the USA to suggest no drinking is okay considering the difference in alcohol culture.

No wonder all my family are mad!

Where IS Leati? Has she run away with the fairies? I would have scarpered if I had caused such upset! I think I need a drink after all this! Pass the gin

I have also just skim read and am in no way fans of evangelicals. Just to say though if it makes the OP feel any better I have not drunk at all during either pregnancy as I, personally, didn't feel it was worth the risk. Having had a prior miscarriage makes it easier to be more rigid I think. Plus in the first trimester, where it is clearly most risky, it was the last thing I felt like anyway. However, I do feel that for the vast majority of sensible, intelligent women it should be a question of personal choice and responsibility and most people are capable of sticking to the odd drink which I really do not think would cause FAS (our mothers did this largely and I don't think I have FAS). What you have to remember is that the government guidelines have to be a catch-all policy that is most likely to do the most good for the most vulnerable babies. i.e if it stops the feckless or uneducated women (who are out there but not on this board I suspect) from drinking excessively and damaging their babies with FAS then it is worth having a blanket policy like this for their babies sake.

The danger is we will demonise the educated, responsible mothers who have the odd glass as well. Personally I think a total ban recommendation IS probably the way to go to protect the vulnerable babies, it may be that it means that other mothers have to have their odd glas of wine at home rather than in the pub I suppose if they want to avoid hostility. As always, this has probably been taken to extremes in the States - but I seem to remember that a lot of it is based on a test case where a heavily pg woman was refused alcohol by a barman as she was staggeringly drunk on multiple nights in his bar - clearly this is a from of child abuse in my opinion.

Shades of grey as usual. Most of my friends now don't drink during pregnancy "just in case".

Some pregnant women I know in the US have been refused caffeinated beverages at cafes in the US.

That's how far they go.

It's been so long since I've been there, I've forget sometimes about all this madness.

But I have people like Leati to remind me.

I've looked at the evidence and see no problem with the occasional drink when pregnant. Maybe 1 a week and not every week.

That's what I did anyway. No guilt whatsoever, no evidence FAS is at all associated with this sort of moderate drinking and besides, isn't most of the damage done in early pg before most women even know they are pg.

Or should we all be giving up as soon as we reach childbearing age just in case.

Depends on who you hang out with I suppose.

Although my brother did once approach a pregnant woman in a bar and tell her what he thought of her smoking. But, I don't think anyone in the bar supported my brother when he did this. He was also about 18 and probably not sober himself.

to be fair to the OP, FAE (fetal alcohol effects) do start to manefest themselves at lower levels of exposure than the full monty FAS. We cannot reject the possibility that our children our less bright because we had the odd drink. BUT the probabilities are very very small especially in relation to other risk that we take

I think women have a pretty rough time of it really. Whatever we do is wrong. In this country we may not have the religious thing but we have pretty good alternatives for that child-bearing guilt trip.

I think that IS what they want you to do in the States - didn't they try and pass a law or something defining women of child bearing age as "pre-pregnant"? i.e you should consider yourself as pregant and not drink etc. That may be fair enough if you are trying to concieve - probably a good idea to cut down as it helps conception - the men as well though! But what if you are not even trying to get pregnant? Surely most women, over here at least, can be trusted to stop or heavily curtail their drinking once they find out they are pg if it happens by accident?

Having said all this, I did see a young girl with a little boy that had FAS at the hospital a while back and it was very sad to see. Surely rational people can see the difference between a binge srinking pregnant teengaer or an alcoholic that gets pregnant and most normal women tho?

I thought that drinking in the first few weeks (only) of pg was thought to be ok, eg when you often don't know you are pg yet, becasue until the foetus has implanetd and the placenta has started forming their is no way for it to pass into the developing babies bloodstream.

youre damned if you do, and damned if you dont.

nowt wrong with a little tipple here and there. Goddammit i was a getting-drunk-every-single-night-of-the-week student when i was 19 and conceived dd, and she turned out just fine!!!

Right don't know how many posts I haven't read so apologies if this has been said by Expat. They have a curious approach to alcohol here in the USA (yes Leati I'm an expat in Colorado). Here in CO, you cannot legally drink until your 21, you can drive at 15 1/2, vote at 18, marry own a gun, but you can't drink. No open drink in cars etc etc. People are trying to pass legislation to lower the drinking age to 18. Needless to say there is a huge instance of BINGE drinking amongst students here in Boulder - and yes I do know what I'm talking about it's reported in the local papers and the police bloggers as kids move away and suddenly can get access to alcohol albeit illegally.
My own personal opinion is that it all stems back to hang ups about Prohibition in the 20's. I had maybe one unit a week whilst pregnant in my second trimester. To be honest I didn't really like alcohol at all and I also avoided anything with aspartame. I'm blessed as I have two healthy boys. Freedom of choice. Remember it's what America fought for.

I had a friend who was arrested outside a bar with an "open container" (a dribble of beer in the bottom of a glass), while other friends got a mere slap on the wrist for marijuana possession. I'm not suggesting we debate the rights and wrongs of US alcohol laws! but I do agree that there is a curious attitude towards alcohol in the States (again, not meaning to generalise for all you Americans!).

Oh and I saw a LOT of binge drinking at uni in the States. No different from here.

Can't remember who said it but its true the foetus is relatively resistant to all forms of teratogenesis (damage in the womb caused by external factors such as alcohol) in the first couple of weeks because the placenta isn't properly implanted. Which is why there doesn't seem to be any harm done to babies whose mothers go on a bender before realising they're pregnant.

Yes so I couldn't stay away in the end but probably off to hide in the safer posts now to save my sanity!!

On a US website for potty training stuff today under 'DANGERS' we are told of the danger of a child drowning in the toilet.

Now why haven't I had that information in the UK? Seems that over here we really are just completely rubbish about anything to do with our children's health or safety

I'd have cut and pasted it but I think theres enough of that on here.

I didn't drink while pg either but leati's attitude makes me want to agree with the one or two units a week brigade!

flipperty - you jest?!? thats amazing! please do cut and paste, im dying to read it.