To be disappointed in hearing that many UK woman drink during pregnancy [shock]

[Leati]

Yesterday, I was on a thread when some of the women started questioning about US policy on drinking alcohol during pregnancies. One of the women had heard that if you have a glass of wine, you could be arrested. I assured her that wasn't true but there was chance that if you were visibly pregnant that the restaurant or bar might exercise their right to refuse service. And if a pediatrician became suspicious of drug or alcohol abuse, they could have the baby?s blood tested at birth. If the baby is found to have these in their blood, the child will be taken away. Another woman pitched that she found it disturbing that restaurants had signs warning pregnant women.

I couldn't believe what I was hearing. These women seemed to believe it was actually okay to drink during their pregnancies. Hadn't they heard of Fetal Alcohol Syndrome. So today, I did a little research and was shocked to learn that it is a big problem in the UK and that there is little education about it there.

Women who are angry over mothers choosing the bottle over nursing are damaging their children by drinking alcohol. This is not minor damage, in some case it is equivalent to severe mental retardation and in others it less obvious cognitive problems. Overall nearly 10% of babies born in the UK are suffering from some sort of cognitive problems directly related to alcohol exposure in the womb.

What broke my heart the most is that I have been on this site and I know that the mothers on this site care so much for their children. That while I may not always agree with everything said and our perspectives are not always the same, that we share a common love for our children. So I felt compelled to start this thread and share the information. I hope that you will share it, with your loved ones and it may spread.

I have attached some sites so you can research this yourself. These sites are both from the UK and the US.

www.fasaware.co.uk/

www.bbc.co.uk/insideout/west/series2/fetal_alcohol_syndro mfaspregnancydrinkinglearning_difficulties.shtml

www.healthychildrenproject.org/glossa ry/

its also socially acceptable in Ireland and France. And Lebanon. And Canada. And Italy. And Germany. And Spain.

By world do you mean the US of A? cos there are other bits you know.

Gosh you are a zealot.

What "viscious defence" of the right to drink?

The validity of some of your statistics was questioned. The interpretation you put on others was questioned. You habit of cutting and pasting rather than actually engaging in conversation was questioned. Nowhere can I see a defence of heavy drinking in pregnancy.

I think you have 'ishoos'...

I though you shouldn't even breastfeed because of the toxins in the body. Tom n Katie could help with that one.

Well, I agree that everyone has a right to make their own choice. But everyone taking the piss out of the OP seems a bit extreme. Why not just leave the thread knowing you're right?

And bugger you lot, I was meant to wash my hair half an hour ago!! Now I have to do the nursery run

lol meowmix

Well I guess I am risking those copy right rules because it is printing as we speak. You all really shouldn't care anyway. After all you are standing on the moral highground, I am a just an awful person who is trying to upset you ladies for no reason but that enjoy it.

good point.

No one has really taken the piss though. Just answered to silly accusations and an awful lot of satistics

Just a moment, though, folks.

The last link was to a BBC report on the problem with social binge drinking. Personally I do think that this is a big problem in the UK and yes, I can see how you might, if you're not familiar with British culture, confuse our discussion below with defending the right to go out in Cardiff city centre, drink 84 Reefs and 14 pints of Stella, then stick a bottle in someone's eye.

So, just in case you're wondering Leati, I'm guessing a lot of Mumsnetters don't appreciate the way our society normalises excessive drinking. It's a whole different ball game from a couple of units a week, though.

leati babies have been given alcohol ,my family gp advised me to put a nip of sherry in my ds bottle when he had colic ,we are talking about a tiny amount though and do you know what it worked. My best friend was advised to drink one small bottle of guiness a day by her obstetrician ( who was also a family friend) as she develops anameia during pregnancy . Can i just ask if you have looked at the research yourself ? not merely the conclusions. Research is only as good as its methodology. In one sense i think you are right about the attitudes to drinking in the uk ,it would be better to have one guideline that all health professionals agreed with and was supported with thorough and excellent research

Great. You do that. Now sod off.

Has anyone noticed that haychee and Leati misspell "vicous" the same way

(not having a dig haychee! )

Leati, If you go over your previous posts I think you will find it is actually you on a moral high ground

I can see the headline now -

British women and the BMA think its ok to drink one or two units of alcohol a week

American woman doesn't.

what a headline !!! Hold the front page !!!!

Ok, I've been taking the pi$$ a bit, Leati, and I mean no malice, but this is MUMSnet. The women on this site are generally women who care about their children and who will try to minimise the risks to which their children, born and unborn, are exposed. I agree with others that your research is based on binge drinking, which I don't think is something most pregnant MNetters indulge in. And we in the UK are a little sick of the nanny-state our country is turning into. It would be nice if most of us could be trusted to use our initiative and act responsibly. Of course, there are always exceptions, as there are in any country. And don't forget that guidelines vary from country to country with regards to alcohol consumption, weaning, BFing, etc.

Sorry. That was a response to Leati's I am sending this to everyone in the universe message. The thread had moved on considerably by the time I got through it!

Oh, and now you are a martyr. Grow up.

just to mention both my best friends children were over ten pounds at birth ,neither have developed any cognitive problems ,infact her youngest just got straight 5s in all her sats and is being sent by her school on a maths weekend for gifted children !

"10% of babies born in the UK are suffering from sort of alcohol related cognitive problems"

What utter, utter bollocks. You are spouting other people's views, not evidence. I am a medical researcher, I can read the primary literature and there is plenty of evidence to suggest that small amounts of alcohol do no damage. It's hard to prove conclusively one way or the other unless we are talking about excessive drinking, but patronising people and going on and on ad infinitum about how much more enlightened the US is than the UK is really not going to do you any favours. You came on here to teach us the error of our ways about the McCann advert and now this. There are much better ways to get the message across.

If you listened to all the advice coming out of America, then even in the first trimiseter (whe the baby is safely behind the pelvic wall) yuo wouldn't ride a bike while you are pregant (becasue you might fall off), you wouldn't ski (becasue you might fall), you wouldn't run (becasue you might overheat), you wouldn't......

It's all waht you mustn't do - even thoguh it also advisable to remain fit.

Like Gizmo, I beleive in taking a balanced view as to the choices I have and in making a risk assessment.

Personally, I chose to stop drinking any alcohol between Weeks 6 and 10, as that was when I had read that the main organ development ocurred. I then had the odd drink for the remainder of my pregancny. As I said to my GP - I was upping the quality and reducing the quantity - which he was happy with. My best friend (a GP) had also adivsed me that was far better to have relaxed and happy mum than an unhappy one (cortisol levels anyone?).

I will choose to continue to follow the advice of the Royal College of Obestricians and Gynaecologists, which is that there is no evidence that a few units a week casue any damage.

I have a strong suspicion that the strength of all the negative advice in the US realtes to the over litigous nature of the society over there, so that professionals are scared to say it is OK to do something, just in case it might not be.

...like the (apocryphal?) tale of the lady who sued the microwave manufacturer for not saying it wasn't OK to dry her poddle off in the microwave.

Thnaks god in this country we do still treat adults as people capable of making their own judgements - although there do seem to be some worrying signs that we are moving towards the American litigation culture.

I am at page 38 girls. Then I can go to bed and it really won't matter anymore anyway.

Leati, I am really sorry if we have upset you. I understand that you feel very strongly about this and that you believe that we are risking our children by having a few glasses of wine. Believe it or not there are many, many people on mn and in Britain who wholeheartedly agree with you.

Trying to stand up for your beliefs is admirable and I don't think anyone is questioning you on that. I appreciate your opinions and would hate for anyone to be put off expressing an unpopular opinion because of this thread.

However, can you not concede that it is the tone and the way in which you have presented your argument that has provoked a negative response? In all honesty I think you may have got loads of response with a heartfelt plea instead of a load of stats and articles?

Page 38? What have you got, the new Harry Potter?! OOOH, tell us, does Harry die in the end!

Well, it looks like we are all about to be judged for the conversation we had here. So we will see. I already recognized that I grossly mentally miscaculated.