Have I been demoted?

[MTBMummy]

A bit of a weird situation at work that's been playing on my mind for the last couple of months, and I would really like people's views on this.

I joined the company in July last year, I was two steps below in the structure from the CEO, ie my manager reported directly into the CEO, my role is such that having the ear of the board is fairly key, so it's normal for me to be 1 or two steps away (in org chart terms) from the CEO.

In November a new C-level hire was made, and through restructuring my boss reported into this new member, irksome, but nothing worth getting upset about.

Then in December I was asked to interview candidates for someone to work alongside me as a peer, covering a slightly different but related area of the business. I met several people, and in the end they chose the one person I rated the lowest of all the candidates.

At the end of January, I was informed that I was actually going to be reporting into this new person, and apparently he knew this when he was interviewing for the role, but they (the company) only decided to inform me when I asked the question directly.

I've had shining quarterly reviews, and have hit my targets and received my full bonus every quarter, so there are no questions about my performance.

I've not had a major change to my role, although I do have to cover a fair bit of my new managers role (which I was doing before they were hired, but was told I wouldn't have to once they joined)

But AIBU in feeling like not only have I been demoted once, but twice, and what would you do? Or am I just being overly sensitive?

Are your pay, benefits, title and JD still the same? Has there been a published restructure?

It sounds odd and I think you're right to be concerned. The being an extra step from the CEO doesn't sound as bad as the new appointment. Can you ask for a meeting and explore why you weren't considered for that role or given the opportunity to discuss it? I think involving you in their recruitment puts you in a weird position to that they don't seem to be bothered about. Are they good employers generally?

Can you ask for a meeting and explore why you weren't considered for that role or given the opportunity to discuss it?

Yeah this ^ I'd certainly want some clarity on the whole thing If I were you

Jesus OP I could have written this. Almost the exact same thing happened to me recently, although I'm being managed by someone who already worked here, but was technically junior to me in a completely different arm of the business (so someone with no experience in what I do/ what my team does).

I also feel as though I've been demoted, despite a lot of confirmation that there was no issue with my work - they just wanted my manager to have less direct reports, so have moved me under this other person to free up my manager's time. It seems they didn't think far enough ahead to how this would affect me and my progression.

Unfortunately once the decision has been made and someone is in that role, you are left with a choice to make as to whether you're going to grin and bear it or look elsewhere.

I have spent the past month looking for jobs but as I'm currently quite well paid in my industry and have flexi-hours, it's not as easy as I'd hoped so I think I'm stuck here for a while!

If you're reporting in to this new hire then they're not a peer, they're a supervisor. Do you know if they're on a higher salary than you or have a higher job title? If so, I'd be more annoyed that I hadn't been given an opportunity myself to apply for the role if I was performing very well, as it sounds you have been doing.

OMG - your employer lied to you and asked you to interview candidates to take on a role as your peer yet the candidate(s) knew the role was for that of your manager?
Words fail me. I am so sorry.

I don't think you are being over-sensitive. I would be really pissed off by that. Obviously management couldn't interview for your role as they clearly don't know exactly what it entails so they used you. The fact that they took on the one you rated the lowest is interesting too. What the hell is that about?

You don't say what size your organisation is so I don't know if it even has an HR dept, although it may be pointless raising it as an issue if it is being categorised as restructuring. It's the employer's get out phrase.

Are you sure you haven't done or not done something that has irritated them?

I would definitely stay cool and professional if asking about it. Then I would start quietly looking for another job and leave at the earliest opportunity.

I wouldn't want to report to anyone with questionable morals like this. The candidate must have been able to tell that you didn't know you were interviewing them for the role you report into. I wouldn't want to work with for them either.

It sounds like a demotion, yes. I would leave.

The second one would feel like a demotion to me, and the way it was managed would make me feel very uncomfortable. I'd be job hunting.

Hi OP, I get why you're not happy. But what I would say is:

You've only been there since July last year so not even a year - quite early to promote you so perhaps that's why you weren't approached.

They can ask you to report in to whoever they like, pretty much but it is odd that they asked you to interview them - do they know someone there? Do you suspect nepotism? I wonder, it sounds as if they wanted someone who didn't know the candidate?

I think you could ask your boss (your old one) what is going on, you can be polite and professional about it but there is something a bit odd about it. I wonder if there's a restructure coming and you're not aware of the bigger picture but they are preparing for it?

I also see why you're not happy about moving from 2 away from the CEO to 3 away, it does make a difference. "Make sure you report in to the most senior person you can" is my mantra at work. How big is the company? I don't think it's a demotion as such, because I really doubt it's about you at all, I think it's bigger picture stuff, most likely.

Thank you everyone for taking the time to reply, I got called into a late call with a customer so I didn't get a chance to come back to this yesterday.

To try and answer the questions asked, we're a fair sized company, about 450 globally

So the structure we have is
CEO
X - New manager above my first manager
A - My first manager
Y - New hire that was supposed to be my peer but is now managing me
Me

X and Y know each other and have worked together previously, which may have impacted the decision to hire them. Oddly enough both A and I didn't rate Y, but the decision was made by X

I don't know about Salary, but Y has definitely been given a higher ranking title than me, my role was originally advertised as a 1 title, but on offer they changed it to one lower, when I queried this I was told they were no longer using that title as they were trying to standardise all titles so the aligned with the structure, stupidly I believed them, but Y has been hired with that level title.

Prior to Y being hired I actually covered his role, and I suggested I was happy to do so permanently. I was told by the CEO that they wanted to keep the two teams separate, so they would hire someone at my level to manage what is now Y's team, so me reporting into Y, just goes against what the CEO originally said.

I did speak to A when I first discovered I would be reporting into Y, he said he completely understood why I would feel less than positive about it, but he had been through the same with X and actually spoken to the CEO about it, the CEO's response was a load of bollocks in my view, something along the lines of "reporting structure doesn't matter, job titles don't matter, we're here to do a job, progression is measured less in upwards climb but more in covering new and exciting areas of the business"

HR are next to useless, they've made it very clear that that will back the company, and not assist the staff (other issues, not mine, where people have had their objectives changed the week before they were due to be delivered so didn't get their bonus)

I loved the job, and to be honest leaving would be difficult, partly because I've not done a full year and I don't want that affecting my CV, but I do have a lot of flexibility and I am being paid exceptionally well, for the industry, so I'm kind of taking the view that I shall shut up and keep my head down.

I just feel like I've been lied to over and over again, that said I've been very careful not to say that to anyone in the business and have kept myself professional at all times, as I don't want them to be able to label me as being emotional, and use that as an excuse against me.

I think that sounds like a good, practical approach. Stick it until you've done 18 months and then look for something else. Your pay is now what you're worth so the job was worth it for that and you should be able to negotiate the same flexibility elsewhere. The reply from the CEO is mealy mouthed and a pile of horseshit imo and I think there's nepotism at play, not much you can do about it IME. Good luck and well done for staying professional, they don't deserve to keep you. And hey, once you leave it'll cost them c£30k plus your salary to replace you so it's their loss, idiots. Good luck.

It doesn't sound as though you will be in line for a promotion at anytime in the near or medium future, tbh. If I were you, I'd touch base with a recruitment agency once you've hit the one year mark and tell them while you're not ACTIVELY looking for positions, if something great came up you'd be willing to move.

Could it not have been that they were interviewing people with range of experiences and depending on who they hired the person might have been reporting to you (if they had little experience) or you reporting to them (if the person was much more experienced than you).

It sounds like they'll tell you whatever they think you want to hear if you question anything. I think you're right to just stay professional, bide your time but leave as soon as something that suits you more comes up.

I'd leave. Whilst the hire of X is just a fairly standard part of business they've behaved appallingly with the hire of Y and have deliberately mislead you several times.

I wouldn't worry about the length of time served. Anything under two years always raises questions but when you're in a senior position which you imply you are it's easy enough to present in a sensible way.

Very poor and the fact that they had you interviewing your own manager is particularly bad. The CEO's comment about progression is a load of old bollocks, designed to get you to shut up and go away.

In your shoes I'd look elsewhere because the firm's approach to management and career progression sounds very dodgy, and if you aren't happy now then it's not going to improve. If asked at interview why you are looking again so soon you can say that unfortunately the career path which was on offer and which was the reason you took the role, has been removed.

Thank you all for confirming that this isn't just in my head, and it is indeed crappy.

I'm happy to keep my head down and remain professional for the next 6 months, but will definitely be keeping an eye on job boards in case something comes up.

I think you're dealing with this very professionally @MTBMummy. I would also remember this when it comes time for an exit interview (which you will have to have at some point if you do decide to leave) as this is why you're leaving and not for any other reason (unless there are other reasons and then include them too).

Good luck!