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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

is my manager insensitive?

47 replies

littlefoxyblue · 07/05/2019 12:24

I'm 6 months in to 12 months of maternity leave. 2 months ago I left my abusive ex. It was the most difficult thing I've ever had to do and I've since moved back to my parents. Other side of the country.

I told my manager this and asked for his opinion on what I should do, whether there was scope for me to work from home, whether I would need to work my notice and leave etc. Being home with my parents is 100% what is best for me and my son and non negotiable.

He's only just got back to me (2 months later) even though I've chased him many times, and has asked for a meeting next week. He's not happy I've moved away and would've liked more notice! Like I should've left my ex earlier and told him earlier. He hasn't asked how I am, or offered any support (I work for a huge company, and am easily replaceable. Think google type size).

He's just gone about it in a really odd way. I've kept him updated. I've even apologised to him even though I'm not sorry as I have no do what's best to me. I've told him if I have to leave I accept that and I'll work my notice and find some way to do that.

I feel horrid. I don't want to leave my job. It's the worst situation ever and I feel like my life is in bits.

Would you react this way if you were a manager? Not sure how to take it.

OP posts:
Pppppppp1234 · 07/05/2019 13:14

Totally see where your coming from OP most people with compassion would go down the route of so sorry you are going through this ,going to arrange a meeting to discuss options - not sure until I speak to Hr what this will look like but please try not to worry.
Anyone with any decency would say this...
Not wait two months to respond!

Where do you stand with maternity - did you get occupational? Will you be liable to pay any back? Good luck OP

Letsnotusemyname · 07/05/2019 13:14

Has this google sized company got other offices in other parts of the country? ie near where you are living now?

Hope it all sorts itself out quickly for you.

fruitbrewhaha · 07/05/2019 13:14

Yes he's a dick!

If someone I managed, called in those circumstances I would have offered sympathy, a kind word was the least he could do. Intead op got a stroppy reponse, it's not on at all.

Pppppppp1234 · 07/05/2019 13:15

I’d also start having a look at jobs closer to home in the mean time just in case so you are fully prepared

littlefoxyblue · 07/05/2019 13:16

@Letsnotusemyname yes they have offices all over but the office near me doesn't include the type of niche work I do. I'm in a specific technical department so would need to be in London.

OP posts:
littlefoxyblue · 07/05/2019 13:20

I've already applied for a couple but trying to find something part time I can imagine is going to be nightmarish.

OP posts:
GeorgeTheFirst · 07/05/2019 13:21

Why do people think the issue is that I want to work from home?

Presumably because you have moved out of commuting distance so your options are either that or find a new job?

littlefoxyblue · 07/05/2019 13:26

But that's not the issue. The issue is that my manager was quite snappy and rude to me despite the fact I had told him I had just left a violent abusive relationship. He made out like I was the one in the wrong. Like I didn't tell him sooner. He was quite mean whilst I was going through one of the hardest days in my life.

The fact I might not be able to work from home or a different location isn't the issue here
Are people deliberately missing that?

OP posts:
WishIwas19again · 07/05/2019 13:27

Yes he's been insensitive ignoring your messages. A manager has some responsibility to support their staff wellbeing, and as a human being it wasn't hard for him to just express some concern for your personal situation, even if he's not happy about the impact it will have on the business/team.

I kind of get him wanting to speak to you in person rather than by phone. It's you who has moved away and you are not incapacitated from attending the office (even if you bring your baby) so he may want to properly document the meeting or have another manager there etc.

Two weeks to schedule it in and give you both time to consider what the options may be doesn't sound unreasonable, but I appreciate you are feeling stressed in the meantime.

PoohBearsHole · 07/05/2019 13:27

Yup OP he’s an unsympathetic prat.

So - pick your battles - it’s a job, just a job and you have to keep yourself and your baby healthy and safe. You have done this, this is a win for you. 1/0 you

It seems overwhelming BUT go with a plan with your worst case scenario being you won’t have a job but will have resigned. You don’t want this too soon as you will have accrued holiday so could wait until end of ml take holiday get full pay and use up all your holiday before becoming unemployed (everyone is able to do this at end of ML - or were and you aren’t doing anything wrong or illegal or even morally reprehensible Smile

In semi defence of an idiot man, by not saying anything supportive he can’t possibly have said anything that could be construed wrongly. He just hasn’t come across very well, or with a response you would have liked.

Two week notice, well...... he will want to meet with you, he will not want to do this over the phone, you have a new baby and would need to find a way of getting to the office AND someone to look after the baby so although it’s worrying you he’s actually being pretty reasonable about timing - he could have demanded you come in tomorrow. Or he could be on holiday/going to be out of the office until then.

He’s a bit of a git BUT I am struggling to see from a professional perspective that he has done anything incorrect.

Well done on getting away from you ex, you’ve done the best thing! Think of this meeting as a start of negotiation to something better or a new role elsewhere. Please don’t let it stress you!!!!!

littlefoxyblue · 07/05/2019 13:28

Two weeks to schedule it in and give you both time to consider what the options may be doesn't sound unreasonable, but I appreciate you are feeling stressed in the meantime.

Fair enough. I accept that.

OP posts:
PoohBearsHole · 07/05/2019 13:32

Also, thinking about it a bit more, he may be one of those incredibly uncomfortable people who got flustered by you having such a personal crises, being stroppy wasn’t great at all but some people just don’t know what to do in those situations!

I’m just trying to give you an option that it isn’t because he thinks you are weak or doesn’t like you but that he might not have an empathy gene thrown in the mix :).

blubblubblub · 07/05/2019 13:41

HR is a minefield, especially when it comes to DV, discrimination etc. Your manager may have taken a while to get back to you because he had no idea how to approach the situation. He also has no idea as to what you're after, so it makes it harder for them to work out how to, or if they can accommodate it. As a pp has said, he may also be someone who just has a problem navigating personal issues of employees. Maybe he felt that saying 'are you ok', would bring up things you don't want to discuss.
You were looking for a bit of a handhold, but unfortunately some people just aren't able to give it.

Letsnotusemyname · 07/05/2019 13:45

Some managers take a holistic view, learn partners + children’s names. Know + understand where you are up to, your situation etc. Take an interest.

Others are just concerned about life 9-5.

I suspect yours was the latter.

The latter type is ok when the going is good but shit when it isn’t. It’s nicer to work with the former.

When my wife was off long term, life changing, sick some places sent flowers, others chunnered on about who’ll come in and do our consultancy.

RomaineCalm · 07/05/2019 13:54

To answer the original AIBU, yes, he does sound pretty insensitive.

However, you're only half way through your maternity leave so there is time to work out the options.

From your manager's perspective he has a member of his team who no longer lives in a place that's commutable to carry out her role. Insensitive as it sounds he's probably wondering what to do about a replacement if you don't come back from maternity leave to the original role. If you haven't planned any KIT days it's not unreasonable for him to think you're not coming back.

I would suggest that your options are:

  • Decide that you don't want to go back to the old job at all and consider giving notice that you won't be returning after mat leave. Check your T&Cs to be sure that you don't have to pay back any enhanced package. As a PP said, you don't need to make a hasty decision and resign next week.
  • If you would like to find a way to make it work meet with him next week to talk it through face-to-face. Is it practical for you to be in the office 1/2 days a week? Could you go back for a period to settle back in with the intention of then working from home? If you worked from home how easy would it be for you to attend meetings etc. If you've had an enhanced package are you going to be able to work the required time?

Be prepared for the fact that you may have to submit a formal request for flexible working that may or may not be approved. If you do want to stay in this role you'll need to be able to present a case for making it work 'long distance'.

oneforthepain · 07/05/2019 14:07

What an incredibly tough situation to be in. I'm sorry you're going through all of this.

I would have hoped for a more human response in the first instance, yes, but some people don't know how to respond. It's ok to be disappointed and upset about it. Don't let that mess up what happens next though.

Looking forward to this meeting and getting a good outcome for yourself, I hope you don't mind me observing that you seem to be deploying quite a passive, appeasing communication style - exactly the kind of communication style our abuser trains us and compels us to use - in your dealings with work and your manager.

For example, you didn't need to call him the day you fled, although I understand the sense of duty you seem to have felt, and wanting to do right by them. You can start to put your own best interests first now, and act to protect those. It's a really difficult thing to get to grips with after abuse, but it will also help.

I don't want to make you feel bad about yourself, but I think being aware of this will help you as you approach the meeting and try to resolve this. It might also help you feel less stressed if you can be more assertive (not aggressive) in the way you communicate with work - because it will help you feel more in control.

Do you feel that you need to try and find the solution that best meets your employer's needs without any flexibility from them - or any right for you to say what you would like or influence the decision or process? It's how it comes across, and I wonder if it was how you felt with your abuser? That you also had to pre-empt what he would want and try to offer it first before he had to tell you?

You don't have to behave like that in the workplace. You can say - calmly, assertively (which means acting for your best interests without trampling over other people) - which options you would like to consider, and remind them of the value you bring to the business, and your dedication, and ask them to work with you to consider it. Frame it as a positive thing for them too, whilst being realistic about obstacles and offering solutions.

You've got two weeks. Speak to Acas (free helpline) to be clear for yourself about your rights to request flexible working and how to go about it. Spend some time thinking through different options - be innovative and creative, don't write things off as impossible until you've given them an airing and looked for ways to modify them to make them possible - and draw up some proposals to discuss.

Spend a little time looking at communication styles and negotiation styles (collaborative styles) to help you break your usual pattern and try things differently. (Google "centre for clinical interventions" (cci.gov.au?) and then look at their resources on assertiveness as a starting point.) See if you can bring a supporter to the meeting if it would help.

And take care of yourself. You've been through so much and you've shown so much courage. Things will get better and you will get through this. You've done an amazing thing for your future by taking this scary step, so please don't give up on yourself or other people yet. Flowers

IsYourGoogleBroken · 07/05/2019 14:24

He's not happy I've moved away and would've liked more notice! Like I should've left my ex earlier and told him earlier. He hasn't asked how I am, or offered any support

It's harsh, but your domestics are not his problem. His work force is his problem and he is answerable to his line managers.

The issue is that my manager was quite snappy and rude to me despite the fact I had told him I had just left a violent abusive relationship. He made out like I was the one in the wrong. Like I didn't tell him sooner. He was quite mean whilst I was going through one of the hardest days in my life.

We dont know you manager - perhaps he doesn't like that level of detail. Is it actually needed ?

TBH I have no idea what I would suggest to to a staff member who relocated (your words) "to the other side of the country". you're expecting him to come up with all the answers - but what options or suggestions have you put on the table?

What you actually want us to do is affirm that your manager is some sort of cold bastard. Ok, he might be. Probably is. But then again, we don't know your personality type either. But he has a business to run. He's not there to catch your tears. And I know that's harsh. But as I said, he is not there to deal with your domestics.

flowery · 07/05/2019 14:28

He is insensitive you are right. However he is not wrong to insist on a meeting to discuss the issue rather than saying yes or no to your request without that.

You have effectively made a flexible working request (although it sounds like you haven't done so formally, following a flexible working procedure), and he would be very foolish to answer that yes or no without a meeting to discuss it.

DarlingNikita · 07/05/2019 14:30

he may be one of those incredibly uncomfortable people who got flustered by you having such a personal crises, being stroppy wasn’t great at all but some people just don’t know what to do in those situations!

Diddums Hmm

He's a manager and a (one assumes) competent human being. It's not that fucking hard to say 'I'm sorry to hear that' or similar.

AnnieMay100 · 07/05/2019 14:37

Can you speak to HR? It doesn’t hurt to be sympathetic towards a horrible situation your employee has been in even from a business point of view. He sounds like an inconsiderate prick. Don’t let it drop, make sure you speak to someone about this even if you have to join a union to fight your corner. If you leave over this it could be considered constuctive dismissal. You didn’t need to give him notice your priority was to get away. Don’t let him cause you any more stress, be proud of yourself for getting out of a bad relationship noone should treat you so insensitively. Flowers

Brefugee · 08/05/2019 13:29

@littlefoxyblue

I spoke to HR first and they said it's down to each individual department to determine what they can accommodate so to ask my manager my options.

Ah in that case he was being insensitive. But i wouldn't read too much into that if you can. It's good that he's suggested a meeting, and if you could go that would be best because often a face-to-face is far better than anything you can do on the phone.

In your place I'd have a really good think through about what you think you could offer in terms of home-office or whatever, and if you really want to stay in your job and be prepared for him to reject everything. And then see how the meeting goes. With luck in person he'll be a lot more sensitive (he's had time to process what you told him) and hopefully he's checked what is possible with HR to give you all the best outcome.

MRex · 08/05/2019 14:03

A basic welfare check of "how are you now and how's the baby?" would be the bare minimum I expect of managers even if there was no DV and you were just on maternity, so yes he's clearly fallen short in his sensitivity.

Here are some option ideas for you to start to think about:
Option 1: It might be that they'll want you to work from a local office to you rather than home and commit to travelling to London for meetings once a week / once a month; it's useful for you to check out local nurseries for timing (plus waiting lists) and talk to your parents to work out before you go to see him what you can manage. It will all be useful to know for other jobs regardless.
Option 2: It could be that they'll decide to come to a financial agreement for you to leave immediately; think about what you've been paid so far in additional maternity benefits and what package would be reasonable redundancy (talk to ACAS and if it's a large private firm then try to get more); if that's the case then remember they are starting a negotiation with you, so you can try to add a small amount financially plus a guaranteed reference.
Option 3: They might want you to be redeployed to a different team or agree to take on other tasks if you're to work remotely, they might also negotiate a salary drop for you from London weighting. Is there anything other role outside London that they or you might suggest?
Option 4: They might be wondering if the move has happened with necessary haste but if you'll decide in a few months to move to another area near London and be able to commute in anyway. Is that something you might do? Move from east to west or vice versa.

You've done well to get your baby and you to a safe place, you deserve to have a happy future and I hope you get one.

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