To wonder what the hell is wrong with cliquey women and mothers ?

[Humpy84]

I’m from Australia ~ might be relevant in case I say minor things that don’t add up.

At park with DS almost 3 and my lovely friend and her children. Park is very spread out and kids running wild. I noticed immediately a girl that I went to school with from ages 10 to 17 who was very pretty and popular.

It was a cohort of 100 girls, many very attractive girls but probably only 20 who were in the cool group. Mainly due to being extroverts, very loud etc.

I tried to catch eye contact of ‘mean girl 1’ but she seemed to be in her own world. Her friend, also in my year at school, ‘mean girl 2’ arrives. At this point our children are playing in close proximity and MG 1 and 2 and Becomes awkward. I think about saying hello but am transported to high school and feel like I’m 12 again and that they should say hello to me. I am usually confident and say hello to everyone, don’t care if I’m the first one to say hello but this is so different. There’s just a general feeling that they don’t want to say hi and not making eye contact even when I try to. It’s a very friendly city and most girls from our school will say hi, even younger ones have said hi.

Fast forward 45 minutes of awkwardness and eventually my child is climbing on top of a fire truck that their children are on and bellows for me, Mean girl one and two are now an inch away from me and can’t ignore me, both say hello loudly and overly friendly. Completely fake and i feel like I’ve just walked into one of those clothes stores where they do the hard sell.

A five minute banter ensues and I am asked where I live within minutes. Mean girl two asks me my sir name and claims that she can’t remember. This is hilarious to me as they used to pretend to forget your first name as little girls and would repeatedly ask about 50 times to prove you were unimportant. I find it completely amusing that they’re still doing this. They wrapped up the conversation quickly and the dynamic felt exactly the same as when I was a teenager, like I was on borrowed time, they ended promptly and did a loud goodbye and “see you at next swings” like a couple of game show hosts.

I’m not at all upset about this exchange. I find it amusing if anything, these girls are not more charming, funny successful, glamorous etc, they’re both very thin but all in all just normal albeit loud and arrogant.

The rules of these cliques is so arbitrary and I find it so weird but also interesting. I would love to know what goes through their minds. Why are women like this ?

I would smile but avoid them as much as possible if you see them in the future.
If they make you feel bad, intentionally or not -just keep your distance and remind yourself of all the great things in your life.
Don't give them the power to put you down or make you feel bad

Why didnt you talk first?
and why do you let it bother you?

Those women would have my sympathy op, it is sad when people don’t develop properly and mature, some people remain locked in old dynamics of teen life. It is a small town mentality usually of people unable to stretch their horizons, or challenge old views and they become stale and do not evolve.

A subject I've pondered believe me.
I think it can be that being excluded is their worst fear so they exclude you so that they are in a tribe. Because if the tribe is everybody who wants to join in then that could change on a sixpence in their minds and put them at risk. Better to solidify the group by making it a THING that a, b, & c are in the group but x, y & z are not.

Also maybe you represent one of their worst fears. Im a single parent and some married women fear that and in their lack of consciousness they externalise that terror by ''othering' whoever represents their fear.

I moved so did my parents so apart from extended family stuff I'm rarely where I grew up - I've bumped into people a couple of times and they have been super friendly, I was not a cool kid!

How do you know they weren't just feeling as awkward as you were

You criticise them for not speaking to you, even though you were in close proximity, and then criticise them for speaking to you in a loud and 'overly friendly' way

I don’t know what your complaint is. You went to school with them a long time ago. Why would either of them go out of their way to include you

Does it really make you a bully or an inadequate woman to forget someone's surname from secondary school in what's presumably been a number of intervening years

Why didnt you talk first

To the people asking these questions, I have a question: are you really unaware of how it could be that without words being exchanged, the OP could be fairly sure that those women were ignoring her deliberately and pretending not to remember her? Do you not understand that lots of communication in any social interaction is non-verbally, and the majority of people are totally able to read other people's feelings towards them without having to have it spelled out? Or do you not believe the OP, do you think that she's misrepresenting how the women behaved for some reason? Or do you just enjoy gaslighting people who've just been treated badly?

Because I am so sick of seeing this on here. You weren't there, if course you can't be aware of the subtle body language and tone of voice cues that the OP would have picked up. But it brings nothing not to take her at her word. The lassie has had a somewhat unpleasant experience in the park, she's looking for a bit of backup, if you don't want to give her it, why not just leave her in peace?

So you had a brief, superficially friendly contact with two women you used to go to school with, who didn’t like you then, and whom you didn’t like, but have still minutely calibrated on some internal cool girls/popularity index — not all women, or mothers?

Honestly, OP, school wasn’t the happiest time of my life either, but you are giving these women the power you still clearly see them as having. You criticise them for not talking to you, and then for talking to you in an overly friendly way, and for asking where you live and to be reminded of your surname. You are the one imposing old school scripts and power dynamics on what sounds like an ordinary enough interaction between people who knew one another, but didn’t get on, at school.

Move on. Stop giving power to this ‘Mean Girls’ interpretation of reality.

Actually @paperhead I had a pleasant experience for the most part at my high school. It was an extremely ambitious, competitive and aspirational year group. I got on with most people & was quite friendly. If you read my post you would have picked this up.

Of course as @toomuchtooold pointed out, you really had to be there to pick up on the communication.

Unless you’ve been living under a rock th b you’re aware of what passive aggressive, ‘bitchy’, relational aggression is. At this stage of our life we’ve either witnessed it or been at the receiving end.

I admitted that I could have said hello and that this wasn’t really what bothered me. It was more the disingenouis way they spoke to me. If you forget someone’s sir name then you go away like a normal person and find out. It was obvious that this question was an attempt at throwing shade.

I’m not upset or hurt. I’m really just interested to know how people like this think. If you’ve written a defensive post/let’s pretend it’s all you/cliques don’t exist, it’s probably because you are one.

To the PC brigade that pointed out that’s men can be “cool boys” too, yes I’m aware of this, I’m married to a reformed one. Obviously this site is dominated by women and we tend to socialise with other mums and women, generally so I made a fair generalisation by directing it at our gender.

Please don’t post pointless and defensive responses and detract from my question by poking holes and attempting your couch psychology and character assisantion. If you’ve nothing productive to contribute then don’t !

I think particularly for women social status is seen as very important. For some people being popular and cool becomes the basis of their self esteem so if they've "made it" into the popular crowd they want to make sure you know it.

I do think the key is to try not to care. That said I've never managed this. I just try to be a nice person and appear not to care (even if I actually do!).

I think about saying hello but am transported to high school and feel like I’m 12 again and that they should say hello to me.

I don't really understand this part - are you saying that they should have said hello to you because they were the 'cool' girls and you were lower ranking than them at high school so it would be a bit of a social faux pas for you to approach them?

I was a geek and bullied by mean girls. I don't really remember half the people I went to secondary school with, let alone what they look like almost 20yrs later, or their surnames. I can just about remember everyone's first name at work, if I know it at all, where I spend half my week (to be fair, it's a big place). This must make me a really awful person. Maybe they were being obtuse, do you care? And why comment on their weight, what the hell has that got to do with anything?

Meh, I don't give people I don't like headspace. It doesn't matter why they are like they are. It isn't my problem.

You don't think you could be reading to much into this because of your school experience?
Maybe they really didn't recognise you until your child shouted your name.
As aint says above I don't remember the surnames of half the people i went to school with so that wasn't necessarily being mean (I wasn't in the popular clique either if that makes a difference).
You could have spoken to them first - maybe they were thinking the sane about you.
Anyway we're not in school now so who cares. It's not like you have to see them every day.

a lot of my friends have had similar experiences with bullies in australia. I suppose because a lot more people are crammed into less space than other countries, it’s possible to encounter bullies on the most random situations. One of my colleagues met a guy who racially abused him between the ages of 15-18 at an interview (bully was applying for the job) - needless to say the guy didn’t get the job!

Just read you post above. You do know this is AIBU? The point isn't that everyone agrees with you! YABU

They're perpetual teenagers.
They still haven't left the play ground yet. By the looks of things I don't think they ever will..

If they forget your name another time, just say 'I'm terrible at names and can't remember yours either'.

If they genuinely have a poor memory, they will be reassured.

If they are bitchy and implying that you are not worth remembering, it tells them that you feel the same about them.

It's ironic you saw them in their natural habit- a playground. They probably don't feel as important in the real world or when they're not hunting in pairs or packs. I've come across a few of these over the years, at school and at work. They backstab each other most of the time. I think the way they behave must stem from some deep insecurity and they think the way to deal with it is to try and elevate themselves above others. A nice insecure person might be shy, but would never be bitchy and try to put others down

These people were really awful to you at school but you still want to make contact with them
Why the heck would you do this ?
You are presenting yourself on a plate to be the butt of their nasty behaviour -again !

You cant change them OP but you can change your behaviour and protect yourself by putting boundaries in place.
Stop making eye contact and just carry on playing with your DC.

Some people never change. There was a very mean girl at my secondary school who now has a daughter who is equally mean. I took my DC along to an activity day once and she was there with her DD. Her DD mocked my then four year old DD’s artwork and made her feel like shit. I explained how her Mum was exactly the same in school and not to worry about it, she didn’t amount to anything. Maybe harsh but true .

It’s just the way of the world, some people are better avoiding.

Honestly, OP, from your aggressive responses to posters who haven't agreed with you, I'd say the issue is as likely to be with you as with them.

You're looking for slights, when in fact these women don't seem to have done anything wrong, other than admit to forgetting your surname -- I could honestly say that after I'd left school a few years, I would have remembered very few surnames of any classmates. (Though I can't imagine why I would have asked them.) You chose to see this as them continuing dismissive behaviour they engaged in when you were schoolmates, but it could be perfectly innocent - maybe they didn't say hello because they couldn't place you, or couldn't remember your first name, quite innocently.

And I read your post, which, far from suggesting you had happy schooldays, is bursting with anger and insecurity, and suggests you haven't grown out of schoolgirl tendencies to view people in terms of the popular ones vs the others, and to judge them on their physical appearance.

These women talked to you in a civil way for five minutes when you encountered one another up close, said they'd see you around and moved off.

What did they do wrong? What should they have done?

This all sounds very silly to me. If I recognize people I went to school with I say hello. I don't stand around wondering if I should. And if I have a conversation I take it on face value and don't look for hidden meaning or slights. If people are rude to you in a playpark move away from the conversation. And don't waste your time insulting people you went to school with. Life really is not an extension of the playground.

How in god's name could anyone here speculate 'how people like this think' if 'you really had to be there to pick up on the communication'?

If you’ve written a defensive post/let’s pretend it’s all you/cliques don’t exist, it’s probably because you are one

Please don’t post pointless and defensive responses and detract from my question by poking holes and attempting your couch psychology and character assisantion. If you’ve nothing productive to contribute then don’t

One of the good things about AIBU is that you can be challenged and have other points of view put across (although it does sometimes become a bit of a feeding frenzy). That doesn't mean that people who offer these are being 'defensive' or 'character assassinating'

Your post came across to me as unsettled/defensive in itself, and I started to wonder why, and whether the dynamic was being maintained by you or them - especially reading the section about not saying hello to them.

Wondering this doesn't mean I'm being defensive or denying the existence of cliques - and I've never been 'cool' in my life.

Listening to others' thoughts on what you've written might help you work out the dynamic more clearly?

If you forget someone’s sir name then you go away like a normal person and find out.

Sorry - I don't really understand this one either? How does a 'normal person' find out the name of someone they've met at the park? And wouldn't going away and learning your name have involved ignoring you altogether until they knew?

Honestly, I know that there are those who continue to act like children way into adulthood, but your exepectations of how these women should have communicated with you during this brief, incidental encounter seem based on the relationship you had with them in the past.

You yourself say that the sight of them transported you back to your childhood - is there any reason that they aren't allowed to feel the same? Perhaps they weren't the uber-confident girls you assumed they were as children - maybe they lacked self esteem, felt safest in their established friendship groups and weren't confident enough to just 'chat' and still struggle with people they don't know well.