Consent issue or AIB precious? (A&E)

[Frainbreeze]

I've been in A&E over the bank hol. I've a history of childhood sexual abuse, emotional abuse and neglect. Diagnoses of PTSD and cPTSD. Presented with excruciating abdominal pain, right side. Don't want this to be identifiable but cannot see how it won't be .

I'd detailed the PTSD's and doctor aware. During the exam he proceeded to partially pull my PJ bottoms and underwear down. I wasn't asked if I was ok with this. In terms of thoroughness incredible doctor, but this keeps niggling away - that I didn't have any control,

Male. Am I being precious here?

A complaint can be a simple as filling in a comment card. At least you will feel you have done something.

Super - that is very harsh under the circumstances.

If you had given details of your past experiences and diagnoses which must have required honesty and courage then I think the dr should have kept you informed of what he was doing and shoukd have sought your permission. To do otherwise was insensitive and I think a little bit wrong.

He forgot the patient was also a breathing human being with fears and feelings and ones that had been disclosed.

Saying I am going to pull down your trousers a little isn’t talking therapy!!!

It’s four seconds.

I understand how the action could trigger uncomfortable and upsetting memories and feelings. I am assuming that the Dr asked permission to examine you in the first place and there may be implied consent as you have presented with abdo pain and are asking for treatment. However, my experience, as a woman, is that Drs have always asked permission before moving my

Sorry this happened to you op.
As a nurse I witnessed doctors who had really poor communication many times. Yes consent was implied, but how hard would it be to say” I just need to move this down” with a bit of eye contact. particularly given that he knew your diagnosis.

Hope you’re getting effective treatment for the PTSD

I'm not trying to be harsh, I'm trying to cheer the OP up. Had there been a serious medical problem, the issue of a moving waistband would not have acquired this resonance.

Take heart, OP, for not being ill and adding to your already considerable burden of stuff to cope with. And yes, I do wish you resilience, because that will give you your life back.

Super I think OP was incredibly brave to tell the hospital about her passed experiences. Your post came across as very mean and dismissive of her experiences.

I hate it when people tell others it could be worse when they are experiencing genuine problems.

Like the people who tell other with crippling depression to cheer up or smile. Makes my blood boil.

@Likethebattle the chaperone is not there for the patients benefit. (Unless asked for) it's to protect the doctor.

How did he manage to pull the trousers down to your bottom if you were lying down? Surely you'd have to have adjusted your position to allow that otherwise they wouldn't shift

Yeah I did, I just clam up.

• A physical exam of your tummy would have saved your life - if you had been seriously ill, which wasn't the case.

I suggest you think about how you'd feel if you had needed emergency surgery. Would you be on MN complaining then?

Maybe see this an opportunity to learn resilience through the counselling.*

Thanks for that, and your internet dx.

You know, maybe I could've had better parents, and the men who sexually abused me could have left a vulnerable child alone? Just....maybe?

YADNBU but....
I think you need to find someone to advocate for you in these kind of circumstances. You have clearly been through a terrible time and deserve the utmost respect and privacy to be shown to you but doctors also are overworked and we need to help them to do a job. I hope you are okay and can find some peace for your heart and head.

I think it's one of those situations where what happened wasn't ideal. Dr wasn't necessarily unreasonable to to do what they did but given your background your feelings weren't unreasonable either.

In a perfect world you would have said ' please ask before you touch me' but life isn't perfect. A mention to the nursing staff of how you felt would have been good as well. But given that the understandable reality is that you could only really process it properly after it was all over i don't think a complaint framed in terms of ' it would have been better if ...' is unreasonable.

I'm sorry you were upset by what the doctor did

Although there won't have been any malice in his part (which from your posts you seem to realise), knowing your history and PTSD he really should have taken a bit more care to explain what he intended to do and check you were ok with it. That way, it wouldn't have caught you by suprise.

Yes, doctors are busy people but patients are people too and some of those people need different care.

I hope you're ok now

"Maybe see this an opportunity to learn resilience through the counselling."

God I do hate it when people who have fuck all experience of what PTSD feels like and clearly fuck all understanding of counselling then try to lecture people who know all about both of these things as if they are some kind of expert.

FFS.

How did he manage to pull the trousers down to your bottom if you were lying down? Surely you'd have to have adjusted your position to allow that otherwise they wouldn't shift

Sorry, but this is the sort of argument that defence lawyers make during rape cases, if the victim was wearing jeans, say - it's disgusting, and takes no account of the way people freeze up when they feel they're being violated.

Sorry this happened, OP; I'm a doctor myself, and I can completely see how it could occur without any intent on the part of the doctor, but simply through poor communication and a lack of awareness of the specifics of your history.

Ha ha chicken totally agree.

Honestly OP I'd get the thread deleted - wankers on here are going to tear you to shreds with no thought to your emotional state just because it's AIBU and 'you asked'.

Honestly, it isn't worth it. They have no concept and they'd rather pile in than respect you and what you've been through.

YANBU btw.

I think it is worth a complaint/giving feedback. Doctor should have asked/warned you first.

@toddlerteaplease yep I know but they do it with all patients now, whether male or female. The requirement is very sad although understandable.

Ffs super are you almost this much of a prick or is it a bank holiday sport for you?

Supersimpkin, people who have survived sexual abuse as children are already really fucking resilient - that's why they're still here.

Part of learning to recover from trauma is rebuilding a strong sense of self and - believe it or not - that involves believing that they are worthy of self-respect and recognising and being able to articulate when a boundary has been violated.

Counselling will not train a sexual abuse survivor to just shut up and tolerate having their trousers pulled to below their bottom with no warning - you're thinking of grooming, love.

I think this was unacceptable and that doctors sometimes lack basic training in consent. Even without a history of PTSD and abuse, I'd expect a doctor of any gender to ask before doing anything.

Send in a patient feedback form so that they can apologise and make sure it doesn't happen to someone else.
Also if you need to go for treatment again you can take a friend/chaperone with you to advocate on your behalf.

You aren't being unreasonable at all. It's quite possible that the Doctor heard what you said re. your past experiences and fully intended to be mindful of it, but then didn't use that information because they got into their 'examination mode', and were mentally shuffling through the possible diagnoses as they were examining you. It's a real skill to combine diagnostic skill with 'soft' people skills.

Would you feel comfortable in saying explicitly 'if you need to touch me, could you tell me first, please.'?

Unless there is a life or death situation, where clothes are being cut off, explaining what doctors are doing is a must. It is very unusual not to. Did he say anything to you in response to your historical abuse and ptsd?