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Original poster

Why wasn’t more made of this?

117 replies

Iamnotagoddess · 06/05/2019 09:57

Apologies for DM link Blush

I read Mandy Smiths book when it came out in 1994 and remember at the time she was made out to be a “silly girl” or a bit of a “slag” in the media when she was nothing of the sort.

There were comedy sketches of Bill Wyman wheeling her down the aisle in a pram Hmm

Looking back though it’s not actually that funny.

Mandy Smith was a victim of child abuse - why is it all brushed under the carpet esp with the #MeToo movement?

www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-6995477/How-Rolling-Stone-Bill-Wyman-glosses-relationship-13-year-old-Mandy-Smith-new-biopic.html

OP posts:
Alsohuman · 06/05/2019 13:49

I don’t have an issue with using the language of the time, obviously with the caveat of context. I’m quite uncomfortable with judging historic language and events by contemporary standards. Clearly relationships with minors were as inappropriate then as now as people were uncomfortable about them.

InTheHeatofLisbon · 06/05/2019 13:53

Alsohuman but there wasn't context, it was stating that these girls were different to MJs victims because they were out looking for sex.

Neither situation means they weren't vulnerable, and neither situation means they weren't victims of prefatory, famous men using children to get their kicks.

That was my issue.

Maybe I'm wrong, people don't have to agree with me. But my interpretation of the post was that these girls were somehow being blamed because they were out looking for men. And I disagree with that, vehemently.

AndSheWas85 · 06/05/2019 13:57

"She didn't look like a kid" is a defence that has been used by older perverts since time began.

The fact is, she was just a kid. She might not have looked like an average 13 year old. But she was just that.

Ratonastick · 06/05/2019 14:03

They may well have been out looking for men. But at 13, they would not have understood the full implications of that. They were children, the onus is on the adults to take care of them and stop them getting hurt (mentally or physically), not to encourage and abuse their behaviour and vulnerability.

Keith Richards made some interesting comments about the Wyman/Smith relationship. I can’t remember exactly what he said, but it was clear that he found it disgusting and revolting and it contributed to Wyman leaving the Stones. On one hand, you can say that Keith was in a position to do something and didn’t which makes him complicit. On the other hand when someone like Keith Richards takes a dim view, you can hardly argue that it was standard rock n roll behaviour.

Original poster
Iamnotagoddess · 06/05/2019 14:09

Yes - if Keith Richards is judging you then you should be worrying.

OP posts:
BertrandRussell · 06/05/2019 14:20

“Maybe I'm wrong, people don't have to agree with me. But my interpretation of the post was that these girls were somehow being blamed because they were out looking for men. And I disagree with that, vehemently.“

I disagree with that vehemently too.

ihaddedto · 06/05/2019 14:21

i agree with you Lisbon. Also am laughing heartily at the idea of sycophantic rock biographies being thought of as ‘research’.

InTheHeatofLisbon · 06/05/2019 14:44

I disagree with that vehemently too

I know Bertrand it wasn't your post I meant.

And yy to those biographies being "research".

I know it was different times, but not so different if you think about it.

Rochdale, Rotherham, all the BBC "stars" protected until very recently, high profile historic cases only coming to light now.

Have we really moved on so much? I don't think so sadly, I think there's a lot of progress that needs to be made in attitudes and language.

sam221 · 06/05/2019 14:59

Celine Dion is another one who ended up with her manager-vast age difference and today it rightfully be seen as it really was-grooming

youarenotkiddingme · 06/05/2019 15:34

Nothing has changed in that teen girls and boys still seek affection and sexual recognition from adults.

The good thing is as a society we no longer turn so much of a blind eye and excuse it because of who the adult is. It's not perfect and I'm sure many victims still slip through the net.

But we've taken leaps and bounds forward in seeing it for what is in when they don't lay down boundaries and respond.

Alsohuman · 06/05/2019 15:49

I’m not convinced Celine Dion was groomed. She was 19 before her relationship with her husband began.

SolitudeSometimesIs · 06/05/2019 16:18

But if you look at Drake and Millie Bobbie Brown and his “friendship” with her, it’s still happening. He’s in his 30’s, she’s a young teen. It’s repulsive.

InTheHeatofLisbon · 06/05/2019 16:19

R Kelly is another high profile one.

I don't know anything about Celine Dion so can't comment.

I'm embarrassed to admit I don't know who Drake or Millie are.

JenniferJareau · 06/05/2019 16:28

At the time it was seen as her bagging a rich man and good on her. She used her looks and youth to secure a future with a rich and famous man. No one I know said much about it as the mother was fully involved. It was distasteful but mum and daughter seemed desperate for money and fame so a majority assumed they were happy with the price they would have to pay.

Sagradafamiliar · 06/05/2019 16:28

Drake?! I have some googling to do.

SignedUpJust4This · 06/05/2019 16:36

My friend was abused at 14. We had been out partying with some older boys and got separated. When she told her parents her Dad's words were 'what do you expect when you put it on a plate for them?' the emphasis is on the victims behaviour and not the adult who should've known better.

Original poster
Iamnotagoddess · 06/05/2019 17:04

Wonder how BW would have felt about one of his daughters having sex with a 47 yr old aged 13 Hmm

OP posts:
ALongHardWinter · 06/05/2019 17:13

Eustasiavye.
The mum rang the police to report this man. Their response.......You show us a 14 year old who isn't having sex. Shock OMG! Really? That is awful.
When I was 14,I would have been hard pushed to show you a 14 year old who WAS having sex!

youarenotkiddingme · 06/05/2019 17:21

I wonder how much it could be translated as her mum 'pimping' her out if she was fully on board and supportive.

Sorry for terminology - I don't know if there's a more PC one?

So in that respect it's questionable if her mother is also 'guilty' of grooming and child sexual exploitation.

Eustasiavye · 06/05/2019 17:38

From what I remember didn't Mandy say her mum would just lie on the sofa for days too ill to do anything. Then her and her sister would sneek out of the house and go night clubbing.
I think when their mum found out she didn't appear to stop them but that doesn't make it acceptable. It's those types of children who need protecting the most.

Graphista · 06/05/2019 18:39

Quite honestly as I read this thread I'm thinking an awful lot of you are naive in thinking it isn't still the case...

#metoo has made a lot of noise...yet to my knowledge there's yet to be a court case!

Rape in THIS country may as well be legal given the pathetic prosecution rates let alone the virtually non existent conviction rates.

We have murderers going free because apparently "sex game gone wrong" is a valid defence.

We have judges regularly giving shocking victim blaming speeches in their summations.

We STILL have kids in care being ignored as "liars" and "troublemakers" if they report.

We have police forces creating victim blaming "anti rape" posters and campaigns.

We have rape victims being deterred from reporting at threat of having their phone taken if they want to stand the barest chance of their rape even being investigated...

We are a VERY LONG way from being in any way meaningfully better off than back then.

"We do not, still today, speak up about things honestly. We gloss and pretend and ignore then have to pick up the consequences later." Totally agree!

"But the baby groupies etc were different in that they were out, looking for famous men to sleep with." What utter victim blaming crap!! If they had parents that genuinely cared for them and protected them they wouldn't have even been there! Plus has it occurred to you to think they'd quite possibly ALREADY been victims of abuse and had their boundaries fucked up in order to be so vulnerable?

"I think some may need to read whole boosts instead of snipping out small sections." Your entire post was disgusting! And you CHOSE to use that phrase!

As a survivor of csa I "understand" perfectly well thanks!!

"I’m not convinced Celine Dion was groomed. She was 19 before her relationship with her husband began." She was TWELVE when they first met and there's certainly been rumours that the relationship started way before they claimed.

It IS still happening, it's not being dealt with appropriately and victims and survivors are STILL being blamed and vilified.

As I said we have a VERY long way to go to improve things.

cunningartificer · 06/05/2019 18:57

One of the biggest issues I’ve come across in safeguarding is that people think in a kind of naive way of all children being sexually abused as very young and ‘innocent ‘. .. There’s a lot less sympathy for awkward, angry young teenagers running away from home/ going clubbing/accepting presents from men

cunningartificer · 06/05/2019 18:59

..accidentally posted! ...and the issue is that they need protection just as much as anyone. A child is still a child even if they are calling you vile names because you’re stopping them seeing their groomer.

Graphista · 06/05/2019 19:15

Well said cunning.

"Unsympathetic" victims are STILL victims.

I was the opposite - good as gold because I also had violence at home to fear and if I'd drawn attention to myself/the family issues I'd have put myself and my mother & siblings in danger.

But I certainly have & had friends who "acted out" and rebelled due to being abused. They certainly experienced shitty attitudes from the very people meant to protect, support and help them recover. Still so much needs done to address this.

SignedUpJust4This · 06/05/2019 20:10

Yes often children behave in a 'promiscuous' way as a coping mechanism and then they are blamed for encouraging their abusers. A child cannot consent.