Lib Dems and Greens living in denial

[Notanidiot]

Do they seiously believe that doing better in the local elections last night means that

a) most people that switched to them agree with their national policy to remain in the EU and/or,

b) they will suddenly be a major force in the next General Election.

Instead the reality is that Labour and Tories are currently not worth voting for due to many issues including the Brexit debacle.

So as the vote was only about who runs the local council (hence the low turnouts) it didn't matter who people voted for as long as was not the Conservatives or Labour.

If a General Election happens the Greens and Lib Dems will still have a minimal amount of MPs. Especially when the Lib Dems have still not been forgiven for abetting the Conservatives for a little taste of power.

'm not having that 'voting for Labour shows you support the result of the referendum' bullshit again

Abso-fucking-lutely

I don't understand why people vote on national issues in local elections.
The local elections are about rubbish collection and libraries, and roads and local services. Not about Brexit.

I do love all the brexiters in the media claiming that the lib dems were picking up protest votes from the leave side yet no-one can find a single person who will admit to doing that...

The fact is that a lot of people are fed up with this shambles and want to forget about the whole thing.

@gluteustothemaximus

Because no tuition fees were campaigned on as a cornerstone policy in many constituencies including Clegg's own. It should have been a red line for the coalition talks but as it wasn't many voters felt that the lib dems had sold them out or been duplicitous in their apparent support for the policy.

It was political suicide and they should have realised that.

If the council elections were a reflection of the Brexiteers' disgust with the British political establishment I say good on them. Spoil your ballot papers at the European elections as well, and at the next general election. That'll show them!

(And then the resultant Lib Dem/Green/SNP coalition government can withdraw article 50 and the rest of us can get on with our lives)

The local elections are about rubbish collection and libraries, and roads and local services. Not about Brexit.

well tmay thinks overwhelming vote for lib dems/greens clearly means the country wants to push forward for brexit.

shes the one in denial, surely!

TheABC I voted green for the same reasons and we had a green gain for our area. Very pleased.

So I have often voted for those who don't stand a chance in my area accepting that the majority view wins however small that majority was.

Why can't the same apply to the referendum result?

What makes you think the same doesn't apply to the referendum result?

When a party you didn't vote for won in your local elections, even with a tiny majority, did all the other parties change their policies to fall in line with the winners? Or did they continue to campaign and hold the party in power accountable for their actions? When your local authority decided to close its libraries and build on the green belt, did everyone simply say "OK, that's fine, it's what the majority wanted"? Or did some people try to campaign to stop unwanted development and library closures?

Why do you think Brexit is any different to any of the above examples? A small majority wants it to happen but there are plenty of people also campaigning against it. As they should be if that's how they feel. Democracy does not mean giving up your principles and beliefs just because a majority disagrees with you.

You may not be a typical leave voter, whatever that is, but you don't seem to have entirely grasped this particular aspect of democracy.

@Hopoindown31 I totally get your point.

I just feel really sorry for Nick. He made a promise that could never be actioned in a minority party of a coalition government.

The whole thing was a stitch up by Cameron in my opinion. When Nick went to Cameron over what pledges he'd agree to let through (bearing in mind lib's are lefties and tories are pretty much far right) Cameron readily agreed to a lot of what they wanted. The meeting went well, and most pledges were agreed with, except for tuition fees. I think Nick felt that it was a victory of sorts, and to accept tuition fees would not be something the tories would ever back, as they wanted to raise them, would be ok.

Not only did the tories, not have to agree to it, they managed to RAISE the fees (triple them I think) and Nick took the fall for it, and all the blame. He paid a massive price. At the next GE, people didn't forget, and Nick lost his seat, and tories got their full government back.

A win win for Cameron.

I think Nick went in with good intentions, but was totally and utterly fucked by the tories.

I cannot understand why no one blames them, they always blame Nick. The minority party, in a coalition full of far right wankers.

Each time Nick went to Cameron over issues like social housing, and wanted more built, Cameron would seek advice from his far right wankers and be told 'NO, this isn't what our voters want. Our voters out anti-welfare, so we will not be addressing social housing'

I believe Nick tried his best to keep austerity regarding welfare back as much as he could, because when the GE happened, and tories got back full control, they unleashed their full eradication of the poor programme, without holding back.

I can imagine that in all the years Nick was with the tories, they did what they could to hold them back, as without their support, and Labour should also back them being left as well, they couldn't get what they wanted through. No billion pound DUP bribe back then!!

I wish everyone would cut him some slack (Nick) he dealt with some of the most corrupt fucking shitheads known to mankind.

THE TORIES HAVE TO GO.

The local elections are about rubbish collection and libraries, and roads and local services. Not about Brexit.

But no one is listening. Not from the millions on the marches, or the 6 million who signed the petition. So people used the local elections to get their voice heard.

In the same way many people used the EU referendum to get their voice heard, kicking the establishment etc.

Britain is broken, people are being forgotten, and no one is listening. That's why all this Brexit shit started in the first place (actually it was Cameron's backbenchers, but still).

And none of this was the EU's fault. It was ours.

glute

I agree with both of your last posts

And i also agree with dontmakeme last post

Cheers Rufus, I always feel like a lone voice on that one

DontMake - totally totally agree.

All of them are living in denial, Lib Dems and Greens aren't particularly unique in this. I've got UKIP here going on about how the local election results being a springboard and Labour lost over half the ones put forward (and many more over the last couple of years) and is still saying how the people of the city would want the smaller parties to work with them.

Personally, I think the focus on the 4-year cycle reporting isn't helping. It's good for watching wider trends and getting a wider picture, but with how much things have fluctuated over the last few years, I'd like to see more year-by-year breakdowns rather than most of what I see which is comparing now with 2015 when a lot has happened between now and then.

Yeah another one here agreeing with you gluteus.

How the hell May can see the voting pattern that's shown up in these local elections as anything other than a vote of no confidence in her government from the electorate beggars belief.

But that Theresa for you, pushing on in her own arrogant way, ignoring everyone. The woman is completely delusional.

But that Theresa for you, pushing on in her own arrogant way, ignoring everyone. The woman is completely delusional.

Agree. How can a vote for both Tories/Labour mean a vote for Brexit (in the GE) but a vote against Tories/Labour ALSO mean a vote for Brexit

The blatant lying is repugnant. - that or she is really thick and believes the crap that comes out her mouth.

She does not believe it. But she can't turn around and say "the country is rethinking" as she would be crucified by her party.

Corbyn can get away with saying that - but if he will is another question entirely.

I am beginning to think a removal of both leaders and a GE shakeup is the only way to break the deadlock now. Which we simply don't have time for.

But was turnout low? Everyone said it would be, but on the night BBC were estimating it was about average. I can't find any figures on the actual turn out.

If turn out was average, you can't excuse the result as voters angry about failure to deliver Brexit staying at home. Ukip did terribly too.

So what, voters were so angry about failure to deliver Brexit that they voted for the parties opposing Brexit. Hmm.

I think PP right in that national figures not yet available about turn-out. In my area it looks like (Wikipedia pg) that past local elections have had turnouts close to 40% whereas night b4 last (I was in the hall counting votes & seeing results written on boards) the average turnout seemed to be about 34%.

Ipsos Mori Paragraph from year 2000:
"Turnout will almost certainly be dire, as it nearly always is these days; last year it was 36% in the shire districts, 31% in the unitary authorities and just 26% in the metropolitan boroughs."

"In the 2012 council elections the national average turnout was 31%. Two years later, when the vote coincided with the European Parliament elections, it was 36%.... 43% was lowest turnout in 2015, when General Election took place too" says BBC.