AIBU to argue with a conspiracy theorist?

[MRex]

I have a friend, he used to be mostly normal to talk to, we'll call him X. Conspiracy theories he's taken up publicly on Facebook in the last few years include:

• Flat earth
• No moon landings
• 9/11 was the US government and the building was rigged to fall
• Most famous people are transvestites, M2F or F2M (this one I'd never even heard of until he took it up and is very weird)
• There have been no school shootings in the USA, it's all actors starting with Sandy Hook and beyond
• There have been no terrorist attacks, it's all actors including Manchester arena, Westminster bridge and London Bridge
• Vaccines are evil

There's a constant theme of media/ government / "big pharma" making things up and "you're being lied to".

I've mostly ignored it, because I don't have much time for Facebook debate and I have no idea what to say to someone who's gone so far down the rabbit hole. DH unhelpfully asks for "the latest craziness from flat-earth-X", and mutters that there's always been something about JFK and the WTC toppling. I can see how someone might find one or two things to be beguiling, I can't see how anybody topples into a crazy world of believing all of them unless psychologically there's something very wrong.

The vaccines though, that's a step too far for me. I had to say something. Now I've ended up that he keeps posting more US-generated conspiracy crap and I'm having to rebut every point one by one. Which is easy to do, because it's bullshit, it seems so silly having to explain how much mercury in a vaccine compares to the amount of water drunk in each day or eaten with a few bites of fish, it's just fighting the flood of craziness. But it's going on and on and on. I know I can't "fix" him by logic, but I also have pangs thinking about how full of fun he used to be and wishing I could help. I feel like I should know something to say so that he can see past the confused mist of conspiracies to just focus on real life. So as not to drip feed I should admit that I don't really see him, we've moved in different directions and know nobody in common. AIBU to engage at all and I should just leave him to it? Is there something I should be saying?

Honestly I wouldn't bother arguing with someone like that. You're not going to change his mind, and when challenged, these people usually become even more fanatical despite the lack of logic.

Just ignore and don't get involved.

Unfortunately you aren’t likely to change his mind, and he most likely enjoys getting you riled up and ‘proving’ his superior knowledge to you.
I wouldn’t waste the energy, those people can just drain you.

It's a pointless endevour, conspiracy theoriests are generally immune to logic and rational thought. Any objections you'll make will be dismissed and seen as indication that you're one of the 'sheeple' who've been hoodwinked or an active part of the conspiracy.

If he isn’t a close friend I wouldn’t worry about doing anything. That’s the place of his family and very close friends, should they become concerned he developing a mental illness of some kind or needs extra support. Your part, as a bystander really, is simply to switch him off if it disturbs you. Unfollow him. You won’t be able to change his mind at this point - you’ll only offend him.

Don't bother!

My father is a full blown conspiracy theorist and has been since I was a pre-teen. I grew up trying to argue him out of all the batshit insane notions he's come out with over the years (and, as a result, ended up being quite the stellar debater against any actually rational opponent).

You can't "win" against a conspiracy theorist because their ideas are seldom based on rational thought to begin with. Or, as the saying goes, "you can't reason someone out of a position that they haven't reasoned themselves into".

What you will achieve, however, is a lot of hurt feelings on both sides and a potential total breakdown of your relationship. Because if you don't agree, the conspiracy theorist will either see you as a sheep or as one of "them".

FWIW, my own father currently believes that I've been brainwashed into being an agent for the New World Order/ZOG/the Reptilians/Big Pharma/Them/whatever the flavour of the day happens to be since I committed the fatal error of mentioning that one of my bosses used to work for NASA.

Needless to say, we don't speak. It was the horrible anti-semitism that finally broke me and led me to go NC.

Sorry to say, there's really no point unless you're willing to get hurt.

So general opinion is that I just stop replying to his messages because I can't beat the crazy, no final message on the latest batch of psuedoscience?

It's so sad, he was such a fun character.

@TakenForSlanted - sorry to hear about your dad. Anti-semitism is thankfully not yet one of X's causes, I really hope he doesn't take that madness up as well, that would have to be the end of any friendship for me.

Go ahead with your final message. If it's for you. Just don't do it because you're hoping to get through to him.

I believe the last thing I ever said to my dad was something along the lines of "you do you, dad. I'd stop you if I could, but I can't. I can, however, walk away because you're turning into a horrible, racist person. And I will. Call me if you ever change."

But again, that was for me. He will have thought NASA boss must have chipped my brain or something.

Block / unfriend on Facebook and save yourself the aggravation. I have a friend who is like this - mostly anti-vaccines and trying to make me 'woke' about chemtrails. He says he's part of the 2% who really know what's going on 🙄🙄

He says he's part of the 2% who really know what's going on

Yeah, they all do that ... one of my father's batshit conspiracy idols claims that he's literally the one human out of 7bn capable of shifting the species to a new, revolutionary understanding of medicine. Unless the Bayer/Pfizer/Novartis connection offs him first, which he thinks is pretty inevitable.

It's probably quite funny once you manage to disengage emotionally.

I would send a goodbye message saying that you are ending the friendship because engaging with his inability to sift fact from fiction is like trying to push water up a hill, and it's depressing to watch someone's mental decline.

I never understand people who claim to have current friends who believe in this kind of pernicious nonsense -- by letting it wash over you, you risk normalising it. And challenging every single opinion is too exhausting. So there's only one censure you can apply.

I get something related with my parents, who are timid, poorly-educated and have a tendency to accept as true what they read in papers/hear on the radio (even if it's the famously intolerant local shit-stirrer who generates listeners out of frothing over about immigrant taxi drivers and the like) -- I find myself patiently pointing out that just because someone wrote it in the local paper/said it on local radio, doesn't mean it's true, and that often looking to see how the event is covered by other news sources is a good idea.

YABU because it's a pointless task.

If you disagree with his batshit theories, it's just more proof to him that he's right and you're brainwashed and a "sheeple".

My DM is like this. She has BPD, I don't know if it's related though. Trouble is she thinks you're the stupid illogical one for not 'seeing the truth'.

You have to distance yourself; don't engage! Once you don't care so much it's a lot easier to hear the batshit and just reply 'Right/Okay/Interesting.' etc.

Remember empty vessels make the most noise. If he queries your absence or lack of discussion just tell him you couldn’t be bothered anymore

HarrysOwl
My DM is like this. She has BPD, I don't know if it's related though.

The plural of "anecdote" isn't "data", as any conspiracy theorists child would well know, but FWIW:

My father has a diagnosis of BPD as well as with schizophrenic episodes. I personally suspect there's some relationship there - especially with the self-centered aspects of his BPD. He just doesn't seem to get the notion that someone somewhere might be capable of insights he's not.

But that's personal conjecture. I'm not a doctor or psychologist and speaking purely from personal experience.

... well, that and his uncontrollable need to be "special" actually.

Yes, I think it's a lot to do with thinking you're special and more clever than most other people, so that you can see the truth that others can't see.

I wouldn't. As the saying goes, 'he'll drag you down to his level and beat you with experience.'

I'm always amazed at the faith these conspiracy theorists have in the government. They genuinely seem to believe that the government/illuminati/lizards are highly organised, competent and working in perfect tandem for their nefarious ends. Not to mention their impressive ability to keep all this stuff secret for so long, among so many people.

IME governments are a bunch of argumentative children who couldn't agree which way rain falls and would rather sit in an acid bath than work WITH another agency and couldn't keep a secret on elastic.

Just hide his feed and disengage. He wont even know. No point declaring war about it, just write him off as batshit.

You can't debate with people like this using logic. It's like trying to engage with a BNP supporter or a member of Momentum. If their mind is made up, further discussion is pointless.

Idiots drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.

"Never wrestle with a pig. You both get dirty, and what's more the pig likes it."

@alligatorsmile - I have similar views on government to yours. There's always more evidence for a cock-up than for a conspiracy.

It’s pointless. Plenty of evidence shows that, in fact, challenging people to debate their views only makes them become more entrenched in them. You will only reinforce his adherence to these beliefs by trying to discuss them. Just block or unfollow him and leave him to it.

He says he's part of the 2% who really know what's going on

That's the appeal -- conspiracy theorists really do want to believe that they're a part of something special and elite. There have been a few socio-economic studies about the demographics of them and they tend to be people who feel powerless in other areas of their life, so they cling on to these theories as a way to reassert that it isn't their fault, that THE MAN is against them.

You'll never convince these sorts that life is mundane, the universe doesn't give a shit, and the government is far too incompetent to accomplish even 1/3 of what they ascribe.

Some conspiracy theories have truth in them, people who totally discount them are just as bad as those who blindly support them. However, a lot are off the radar with next to no amount of evidence to support and even those with evidence are circumstantial at best. I wouldn't denounce all theories though, as someone with family in various ranks of military and police and who has experience in government, a commonality we all think is that Britain is no better than Russia and China etc, except where those countries do ill in front of you, we do it behind everyone's backs...Back in 2000 a certain far right leader claimed that there were gangs of a certain demographic drugging and raping girls of which the police and government are covering up, he was almost imprisoned and his comments denounced as some warped conspiracy...Would we call that a conspiracy theory today? Always be open to everything, especially in today's world where anything can happen.