To wonder why schools don't make an effort to stop the spread of germs

[TeenTitans]

It's just accepted that kids spread germs to each other. Why? Why isn't anything done to reduce it? Hand sanitizer in classrooms the way they have it in hospital would be a good start. Ensure the kids gel their hands coming into classrooms. No outdoor coats indoors. Proper antiseptic hospital cleaning of the bathrooms at the end of the day.

It just seems bizarre that the attitude is that's just how it is when there are ways of addressing it. Immunocomprosinsed people exist and this is a real problem

@Glitterblue your children really wont get sick because they walked over a patch of ground that had been washed of vomit and didnt take their shoes off at the front door.

Employers need to sort out sick policies too. It makes zero sense to have someone come into work coughing, infecting the entire team and reducing productivity as every one does a rubbish job instead of taking a few days off to get over the worst infectious stage and come back refreshedm

I think you need to buy a huge bubble and homeschool.

Please don't start a shoes on/shoes off debate. Please

What about how frequently to wash your towels and clean your loo brush?

O/p do you and your daughter have medically diagnosed immune disorders? What do you mean by “rubbish immune system”?

Immunocompromised is one thing that will not be solved by hand gel and outdoor coats.

A “rubbish” immune system could possibly be improved by exposure to more bacteria and viruses to build up immunities.

I'm not sure what else can become school responsibility.

I’ve seen the following suggested:-

Teachers applying suncream to the children before each playtime.
Teachers brushing the children’s teeth.
Teachers providing breakfast and holiday childcare.
Teachers checking for head lice.

I’m sure there are many more!

No graphista, myself and one of my kids has a weakened immune system which can land either of us in hospital. I get irritated that people don't take reasonable measures and are blase about germs

One of my DC was in a class with another child who had a severe allergy - the sort that couid cause otentially dangerous symptoms from touching something that had been touched by the allergen, even if it looked clean.. To reduce chances a child inadvertently spreading anything round the classroom by touch, the teacher insisted on frequent and thorough handwashing.

That class had lowest sick absences in the school

It's neither an expensive nor a difficult measure.

It really works

And it sets up a good habit for life.

I think you need to buy a huge bubble and homeschool

this

@Holidayshopping would they all have to bring in there own toothpaste

O/p do you and your daughter have medically diagnosed immune disorders? What do you mean by “rubbish immune system”?

She was premature and hers is down to that.

In my case, they don't know what causes it, but since childhood I've suffered with repeated bacterial and viral infections and get knocked off my feet by colds and common illnesses. I've currently got pneumonia and pleurisy which is fun, and coughed to the extent it's cracked my rib.

Perhaps I'm feeling a bit bitter due to that.

Ethel that teacher is a hero. I wish more would do that. Basic hand washing would help massively.

I teach little children. We do encourage all the children to wash their hands but really you'd need an adult in the toilets all day to make sure this actually happens when each of the 30 use the loo numerous times a day.

Little children also sometimes unthinkingly cough or sneeze on other people. They're still learning the habit of covering their mouths and can forget. Over the years I've lost count of the amount of times I've felt the sudden shower of spray from a sneeze knowing that in 2 or 3 days I'll probably have yet another cold

We do enforce a "stay at home for 48 hours" policy following diarrhoea or sickness. But for many adults this can mean 2 days unpaid leave to look after their children so I understand why parents can find this frustrating.

To answer your question I think schools do lots already to reduce the spread of germs. But you're talking of the unique situation of often hundreds of little children in one building still learning good hygiene habits, not hundreds of adults with habits ingrained. In my class the toilet is used all day long. I guess I or my TA could position ourselves at the door of it all day long issuing reminders but I'm not sure our smt (or parents) would be too happy with that use of my time

"Teachers applying suncream to the children before each playtime"

That's the norm in many places in the Antipodes. We had a Kiwi TA who has direct experience of both systems and says it's both quicker and more effective for staff to apply, than for staff to supervise (assuming supervision is more than cursory, checks that the pupil is using the right lotion beng needed for both systems, and '24 hour' creams being so thoroughly debunked now). It's more a case of staff here not wanting to do it, rather than there being any particuiar downside if they chose to adopt Kiwi norm

The best way to avoid passing on germs is proper hand washing. You don’t need to use gels.

Soap and tissues. Hardly a budget breaker. And parenting.

Keeping kids off when they are ill would help, but too often it's seen as childcare these days and parents can't always get the time off work for ill kids.

TeenTitans

She wasn't a hero, she was a very ordinary teacher who was mildly terrified of what might happen if Child X started wheezing and puffing up (yes, epipen trained and well versed in what to do, but still terrified) and wanting, for the sake of X, for it not to happen.

even if KS1 DC don't always wash their hands terribly well, getting them to wash them often appears to make a big difference

@ethelswith

It's more a case of staff here not wanting to do it, rather than there being any particuiar downside if they chose to adopt Kiwi norm

Its actually more a case of losing there job due to accusations of propriety, but feel free to spread the usual lazy teachers/ta bullshit

Hand sanitizer doesn't kill all bugs, it's great as an addition to washing hands with soap and water, but if kids aren't already doing that, it only has limited usefulness

Basic hand washing would be great, but other than designated washing times (just before lunch) when they all do it, who is going to watch each child after a toilet break? My current school has just lost 4 TAs to redundancy, will lose another 2 in July and the ones that are left are either 1-1 or in Nursery/Reception. The teachers can't leave class every time Johnny wants a pee.

Schools provide soap. If you train your children to wash their hands properly then it is more than sufficient to deal with the everyday germs that they encounter in school. Alcohol gel dries the skin and, when used in excess, can cause painful cracks in the skin. It is entirely unnecessary in a school environment.

ethel it should be standard but as people have shown, it isn't, so I think she was wonderful for doing that!

I have soap monitors and bought my own Carex liquid soap which they love to use. I have a fragrance free one if needed.
I also have dettol spray I use each day and wipes for emergencies. I also have hand sanitiser to use before baking and eating.

I still get bugs as I have Crohn's disease and other issues which means I am vulnerable but I feel I do all I can. In my school we all do this and have hand washing lessons and hygiene lessons but that didn't stop eight members of staff getting sick one day last autumn as a sickness bug was going rampant round the school.

It's more a case of staff here not wanting to do it, rather than there being any particuiar downside if they chose to adopt Kiwi norm

No, it's not, Ethelswith
I would have happily applied lotion or help the children apply it, but most schools round here have a policy where no creams/ lotions/ medicines are allowed in the classrooms or near the classrooms due to allergies.

Plus, it's just not feasible. Imagine having to apply lotion to 30 children two or three times a day. How long do you think that would take? It's not that, in theory, teachers don't want to but with hardly any TA or other adults in school, it would be the sole responsibility of the teacher and would either take up break or learning time. Either way, parents would complain.

And I found it's the parents who send their children in to school, coughing, sneezing, vomiting, then say they cannot collect them when the office phones as they're busy at work. Happened so many times... an obviously sick child in school spreading germs to other children and adults.

A more pragmatic approach would be for parents to make sure kids know how to wash their hands, and a whole culture-shift against "presenteeism". I will drag myself in to work with a cold when really I know a single day in bed would make me feel better faster and reduce the spread of germs, because I know that three single episodes of sickness will trigger an interview with a line manager. Everyone says that this is "to help if there is a health issue" but knows that it's really just a stick to beat you with. Fair play to trying to stop malingerers but this is a sledgehammer to crack a nut. I only take sick leave for things like D&V where it's obvious you can't work. Same for schools, they give out attendance awards that discriminate against kids with poor health. Must suck if you have asthma/severe allergies/tendency to tonsillitis etc and your friends get the 100% award purely to luck of the gene pool.

You see, all those factors apply too in NZ, but it works there really easily. It doesn't kill break time, contaminate allergic DC, or make for an unmanageable classroom or slow/substandard learning