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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To think we shouldn’t be liable for this?

107 replies

Maneandfeathers · 27/04/2019 18:46

Quick backstory.
Parked our car legally outside of our house. No lines or anything like that. Been parked there for years never any problem. We don’t have a driveway.

Neighbour at the other end of the street drives along our street blind drunk, swerves, hits our car almost writing it off, continues on his merry way, sort of parks up outside his house and gets home.

I witness this and confront him. He denies hitting our car despite me seeing him do it. Then he says we have obviously parked badly. He is very drunk, stinks of alcohol and police are called. Arrest him and he’s over the limit etc. We get his insurance details and our car is fixed to a tune of £6000. I don’t think much more of it and presume insurance are dealing with it.

6 MONTHS later I receive a letter to state he has denied hitting our car and we are now liable for the costs of the damage plus the hire car we were forced to have because he had smashed up ours while drink driving.
He is now denying the whole incident and apparently the police report is unrelated as they didn’t see him drive the car Confused

How can this possibly be fair Angry
We have spoken to our insurance company but apparently there is no proof despite the arrest and the photos of our car and his which was also damaged. He is denying it ever happening.
We stand to loose all of our no claims bonus also. We can’t really afford to have anything else go up and are struggling as it is Sad

Would I be unreasonable to knock on his door and call him a shitty drunken arsehole for this Blush

OP posts:
Romax · 27/04/2019 20:18

Why was he arrested?

He was at home. Not driving.

RosaWaiting · 27/04/2019 20:18

I'm not a lawyer

but if he gave you the details for his insurance, wouldn't that be admission that he hit your car? If it wasn't him, then he'd refuse to hand over details.

this is on top of the fact that your story adds up and his doesn't. Is it possible he's found a "no win no fee" type solicitor or something? Or just trying it on to see if he can intimidate you etc?

BruceAndNosh · 27/04/2019 20:20

I'd creep out and let his tyres down every night...

mum11970 · 27/04/2019 20:20

If another person insured for that car is in the residence, a warm bonnet doesn’t mean it was the drunk person driving or that was the car that hit the OP’s unfortunately. There is no way the OP is being asked to pay £6,000, insurance doesn’t work like that. OP shouldn’t have to do anything, it’s the insurance company’s responsibility to sort it out.

mum11970 · 27/04/2019 20:21

The neighbour could not refuse to show the police his insurance documents if they asked for them.

pumpkinpie01 · 27/04/2019 20:23

Who are you insured with ? And are you through a broker ? The hire car could have come from 3 different places , your insurers, his insurers or the legal company, most likely your insurers though. Who is asking you to pay the hire charges back ? I work in insurance btw so will help if I can

Original poster
Maneandfeathers · 27/04/2019 20:24

The man lives alone with no family.
His car was warm and he was very drunk, breathalised over the limit.

I rang the police immediately after the incident, mainly as he was drunk and also stating he hadn’t hit the car and then changed his story to ‘well it shouldn’t have been parked there’
He then broke down into tears saying he has been going through a tough time etc and was apologising profusely before getting angry.
He was swaying at the time, stank of drink and could barely get into his house. I didn’t want him to drive again in that state as I had clearly seen him driving the car not two seconds before. I saw him drive it and get out of it.

By the time the police got to him he was inside but only by moments. He was still drunk, car bonnet presumably still warm and damaged. Hence he was arrested.

Charged I am not sure about though. I was never called for evidence so I assume not?

OP posts:
mummmy2017 · 27/04/2019 20:25

Knock on every single door of the houses in your road, some will have heard it, seen it or heard him say he hit your car.

Original poster
Maneandfeathers · 27/04/2019 20:26

Sheila’s wheels are my insurance, no broker.

We have a letter from our insurance stating that he is refusing to pay the claim therefore they will try and take him through a court to recoup costs however we may be liable for the cost and loose our ncb should they not be able to claim from him? Does that sound about right?

OP posts:
mummmy2017 · 27/04/2019 20:29

Still go ask everyone in your road.

One person who saw it will guarantee you win. ..

ThunderOnlyHappens · 27/04/2019 20:30

We had something similar with our car as the other persons insurance were refusing to pay our car hire charges. I was told it was a formality as they were avoiding the charges. It did go to court and they immediately acquiesced. The driver wasn't drunk but did drive into the back of our (three week old) car, nearly writing it off.

hmwhatsmynameagain · 27/04/2019 20:34

Try the civil courts, burden of proof is for him to proof he didn't, unlike criminal court where the burden of proof is for the prosecution to proof he did

Justaboy · 27/04/2019 20:35

I thibk that there is an insurance ombudsman for these sort of cases you can appeal to. Pretty shit performance from Shelia's wheels and the police here are acting in a rather crap fashion too. Perhaps a complaint to them might bring some results.

I think a complainnt re your insurer might be more in order why just why did they wait Six bloody months for this to come to light?.

Seems you can't trust insurers anymore and no confidence in the ploice either still this may be one of the things now they are no longer intrested in!

Romax · 27/04/2019 20:36

The police must have blue lighted to you. Absolutely caned it to get there moments after he exited the car.

Hmm
Justaboy · 27/04/2019 20:37

It's this one..

www.financial-ombudsman.org.uk/

FraggleRocking · 27/04/2019 20:46

I think as others have said his insurance is probably invalid because of the drink driving so they have to pursue other options. Might take a while to resolve.

FromthePinkGlitterySide · 27/04/2019 20:48

This must be really stressful for you. I work for an insurance company. The reason he’s refuting being drunk is because he won’t be covered if he was. However the court process is much easier for this than for criminal cases. They pretty much only have to believe slightly in your favour to swing it that way so don’t be so panicked about the whole thing. If the insurance company are taking it to court for you then they believe you, however they have to warn you of the worst case scenario.

Sickofsquishies · 27/04/2019 20:51

The civil burden of proof is 'on the balance of probabilities' he wouldn't have to prove he didn't do it but the judge would look at what was more likely. I'm surprised your insurers have given up on this one. The fact that he had related damage on his vehicle and was arrested for drink driving would likely be enough for any judge.

It's unlikely to be him that's refusing to pay, it would be his insurers. You would only be liable for the excess, your insurance would pay for the legal representation as they would be representing your insurer as it's them that has paid for the repairs. As for hire, if this was credit hire they may approach you for the money but it's unlikely that you will end up paying it. If your premiums include courtesy car cover and it was arranged by your insurer you won't have to pay.

I would push your insurers and, if they don't dispute this with the other insurer make an official complaint about their liability decision as they will need to give you a final dispute resolution letter before you can go to the FOS.

Original poster
Maneandfeathers · 27/04/2019 20:56

Romax not sure what the Hmm is for.
I live in a small village, 5mins from a massive police station.

I also wrang 101 for advice not 999, the operator said she was sending someone straight away.

The man was drunk. He spent a while drunkenly debating with DH whether he had or hadn’t hit our car.

Not sure why you would disbelieve me to be fair, surely I have better things to do than make stories about a drunken neighbor and an insurance claim up Confused

It happened on the lead up to Christmas, right in the middle of a drink driving campaign so I imagine they are pretty shit hot at that time of year. There has also been many rumours over the years that he is a ‘drunk driver’ so maybe they knew of him.

We have never claimed on insurance before nor had dealings with court or the police so it’s all quite confusing to me and I really don’t have any money at all spare so having the letter drop through the door is pretty stressful for us!

OP posts:
Original poster
Maneandfeathers · 27/04/2019 20:57

Our excess is about £350 Blush

OP posts:
Nicketynac · 27/04/2019 20:59

I thought that if you were drunk (or otherwise breaking the law) driving then third party insurance would still pay out i.e. the damage to someone else’s car would be covered but you wouldn’t get money for your own car or injuries.

pumpkinpie01 · 27/04/2019 21:02

Your insurers are saying they are pursuing this to court so that’s good , it’s highly likely that his insurers will back down prior to court as on the balance of probabilities your version of events is the correct one. You will not be personally liable for any court costs but their letter may be worded as if you will be due to legal jargon. @FromthePinkGlitterlySide won’t his insurers have to pay out under the RTA regardless of him being drunk ?

Jent13c · 27/04/2019 21:07

Have you called your insurance to discuss? I was

in an accident where someone went into the back of my car and got a scary letter around 6 months afterwards saying that their insurance company hadn't paid and they were going to take it through court etc. and I was completely freaking out. I called them and it was a standard type letter, his insuance company were just waiting until the last threat before payout.

In your letter they say you would be liable for costs and excess. Is the the costs just the hire car? My worry would be that his insurance has refused to pay (which makes sense on their part as he was driving under the influence) and your insurance are now trying to recoup costs wherever possible so say the claim is 6k, they can get 1k back from you for excess plus car hire costs. Whereas if they pursue a claim it may cost 10k legal costs plus 6k car claim which he may not have (as he doesnt have endless cash like his insurance company would). So now it's not in your insurance company's favour to pursue the claim? Even if you win. So they are trying to encourage you not to go down that route?

YouJustDoYou · 27/04/2019 21:07

Yup, happened to my friend too. Notoriously horrifically bad local driver who regularly reverses etc into cars. Friend managed to record the aftermath of this woman yet again driving into a car but because the driver denies it and my friend hadn't caught on camera the actual hitting of the car, only the aftermath of the woman in her car as she drove off, my friend was liable for the damages as the woman denied it. It's so, so unfair.

TheFatberg · 27/04/2019 21:11

I'm going to be the most annoying person on Mumsnet and point out that you would lose your no claims and not loose them. I'm sorry but it's worth you knowing that for any documentation or letters you have to write about your predicament (which is incredibly shit).