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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Nursery wants to see our birth certificates is this normal?

53 replies

StrugglingJuggling · 27/04/2019 15:16

My daughter has just started nursery, we are only claiming the 15 hours free. Before she started the school requested we sent in proof of her age. They then asked for her passport, our passport’s (her parents), proof of national insurance numbers and our birth certificates.

They have lost the copies they made of her birth certificate and our passports twice now and have requested them for a third time. They still want to see our birth certificates (not seen mine since 1998, husband has never seen his!).

This seems like total overkill for a free nursery place everyone is entitled to. I assumed if we were applying for 30 hours you do so through the government website and produce a code to hand into the school. We aren’t even claiming 30 hours so I’m not sure what the extensive identity checks on us are for? As for losing copies of the documents TWICE well...

I’m just wondering if they should even be requesting our daughter’s passport, what if she didn’t have one? I’m really not sure why they would need to see our birth certificates if they have our passports? It’s irritating me as I’m convinced they are just harvesting data which they clearly have issues looking after!

OP posts:
CloserIAm2Fine · 27/04/2019 15:44

Sounds very dodgy, asking for excessive personal details and then losing those details is not acceptable anywhere!

Of course they need to ensure your child is entitled to the funding. But the documentation they’re asking for is way in excessive of what would be needed to check that.

As you want to maintain a good relationship with them I would express concern that they’ve lost your documents previously and ask why they need them anyway, as you’ve already provided more than enough to show your child is entitled to the funding. And maybe ask what they’re going to do differently this time to ensure they don’t losing them again!

OnlyLittleMissOrganised · 27/04/2019 15:45

Ask why the destroyed them and if they have done so again until they can provide evidence as they have received the docs twice then why do you need to provide them again. Maybe give them a link to the GDPR.

ReganSomerset · 27/04/2019 15:45

I'd be playing merry hell about the lost documents and insisting they bloody well find them. I think you can report them for losing them. Any randomer on site could have picked them up. Identity theft is a massive concern.

GabsAlot · 27/04/2019 15:45

what is it with these places asking for pasports-mine ran out years ago some people just dont have one at all

also what if you dont drive-they become baffled when dhs work asked for one or other he said i dont drive and i dont have a passport

frazzledmumoftwo · 27/04/2019 15:48

Was your daughter born overseas or in Ireland? Is it to confirm her nationality?

ExH and I are both British Citizens, but we were overseas for DD's birth.

When applying for DD's UK birth certificate and UK passport, both parents had to send our Birth Certificates, to confirm that at least one of us was British "by Place of Birth", not just "by Descent".

Still can't believe they lost copies though ...

ThorosOfMyr · 27/04/2019 15:48

I'd be asking them about losing the documents twice.

^^ This! I am sorry but I would refuse on the grounds that you have shown them the requested documentation twice before and now you have legitimate concerns about how they hold sensitive data.

I have never had to show anything other than my DC's birth certificate.

quietheart · 27/04/2019 15:50

I think GDPR means that they need to be accountable for keeping information secure and have a process for only requesting and storing documents necessary for the task. They must know where they are stored, how long for and protect against loss.

From what I remember the request and storage has to be fair, transparent and relevant.

I do understand that you don't want to be that mum, but sometimes you need to be. Have you asked other parents if they need to give so much information?

Gilbert1A · 27/04/2019 15:50

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BuggerOffAndGoodDayToYou · 27/04/2019 15:52

It used to be that we (as a school) had to see (and make a copy of) original birth certificates (never of parents though) with all applications. One the application was processed the copies had to be destroyed. Then it changed so we were allowed to keep copies if we could show a reason. Now there is discussion again about whether we have to destroy again. NI numbers are needed to check funding entitlement.

Cranky17 · 27/04/2019 15:52

They don’t need any other Info for funding other than a legal document to check date of birth and child’s name.

They should just view and return document.

Gilbert1A · 27/04/2019 15:57

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Tanith · 27/04/2019 16:02

Our council insists that we see a copy of the child's birth certificate for the 15 hours and 30 hours subsidies for them. The parent's NI number is also required if we are claiming the 30 hours.

If parents don't provide these things, they can't claim the subsidy.

We're not required to keep any documents, just to sign that we've seen them. I suppose some might ask to keep a copy as proof, but they most certainly shouldn't be losing them!

BorisBadunov · 27/04/2019 16:09

This isn’t going to help you at all OP, but I remember when applying for reception places in independent schools, one school in particular asked a lot of very specific personal questions about DD. What age did she crawl? What age did she walk? Was it a natural birth? Any forceps use?

I only found out after the fact, as I was travelling for work on that day so DH was the one who had to answer all these questions (in an interview with the HM) as best he could. It completely put us off the school and we sent DD elsewhere.

I always thought the HM was quite lucky she dealt with DH and not me, or I’d have treated her with a graphic, blow by blow account of the delivery 😁

But yes, the nursery IBU.

DishingOutDone · 27/04/2019 16:25

I'd be concentrating on the loss of personal data before providing anything else OP. Ask for an appointment with the Manager. If there were more "that parent" people shit like this wouldn't be so casually dismissed.

Original poster
StrugglingJuggling · 27/04/2019 16:29

I know they are in the wrong regarding photocopying the docs and losing them, unless they do destroy them after x days, but why not just look at the document and tick a box as seen on the spot? Either way it’s a shoddy system.

It’s the wanting more info on us, I was curious if it was normal to need to see the parent’s birth certificate. I’m just not sure what they need so badly from it? They can see our place of birth and dob on the passports and there’s a picture on there too so no questioning it’s me. I almost feel like they don’t believe we are who we say we are!

OP posts:
Letsnotusemyname · 27/04/2019 16:30

Two issues here -

One. Lost/misplaced documents. Where exactly are they/who has seen them/who has got them?

Two. Wanting to see so many documents. Part of the ripples coming from the ‘hostile environment’

When I was a secondary teacher we did ask to see birth certificates after a child managed to start a year early. They went through school only to find they couldn’t leave and had to repeat y11 again. ( Or year 5 as it was many years ago.);

redexpat · 27/04/2019 16:33

Do you tjink someone has misread some guidance? So to probe eligability then the parents must have the legal right to work so any of xyz canprove that. But they have taken it to mean x+y+z.

Aside from that I would be going along the data line as Dishing and other pps have suggested.

TalkinPaece · 27/04/2019 16:40

Struggling
I do not have a birth certificate.
When and where I was born, they were not issued to families.
I wonder how your jobsworths would cope with that.

Original poster
StrugglingJuggling · 27/04/2019 16:41

Even the nursery teachers said they weren’t sure why she wanted to see our birth certificates. I have been in to speak to the office, the other staff member said our passport is fine, this was weeks ago. Yesterday I got another message asking for birth certs for us and daughter’s passport (again)!!

This woman is determined!

OP posts:
Nanny0gg · 27/04/2019 16:47

This woman is determined!

Is she the top of the tree or does she have a boss? Because none of this (especially the carelessness) is acceptable.

Acis · 27/04/2019 17:00

Ask her to quote precisely what regulation or Act requires them to see these documents.

HeadsDownThumbsUpEveryone · 27/04/2019 17:19

Yesterday I got another message asking for birth certs for us and daughter’s passport (again)

What if you do not have a copy of your birth certificate and its not beyond the realms of improbability for a 3 year old to not have a passport. Hmm

I would just email her (so there is a paper trail) stating you have shown the relevant documentation twice and asking why she feels it is appropriate to continue to ask for information they already have. I would also CC in her boss and question why they have misplaced/destroyed this information twice already.

TalkinPaece · 27/04/2019 17:41

What if you do not have a copy of your birth certificate and its not beyond the realms of improbability for a 3 year old to not have a passport.
All UK born kids will have birth certificates
and all us immigrants will have passports
(at least the ones under 40 will)

outsho · 27/04/2019 17:43

Nope, this sounds rather odd. I had to show both the childminder and school my DC’s birth certificates but never my own.

HeadsDownThumbsUpEveryone · 27/04/2019 17:55

All UK born kids will have birth certificates

Yes but they want to see the OP and her husbands birth certificates which she admits she does not know where they are. They have probably moved house at some point and many people misplace them, thats not unreasonable.

and all us immigrants will have passports

Which is great but not really relevant as they want to see the child's passport as well as her parents. A lot of adults don't have a passport and most 3 year olds wont have a passport.

So unless they are specifically targeting the OP for these documents for some reason then surely they understand that this criteria cannot be expected to be met by all the parents applying.