PIP and "medical"

[DrDoolalli]

I've been receiving DLA/PIP for five years, submitted my documentation for "review", content saying nothing changed, pain worsened due to new condition, and giving details. Included GP letter confirming nothing has changed.

I've now been called for one of their amazing assessments, with sod all notice too, can't call it a medical as no medical ethics involved.

I'm shitting myself. Unreasonable to think given five years claiming and nothing changing there is no need for this?

Anybody?

I don't think it's unreasonable for them to want to reassess you. I don't know anything about your medical condition, so I can't make any assumptions, but there are a lot of people out there who are taking advantage of the system. There are also a lot of medical conditions that can vary year to year. Therefore reassessments are necessary to try and minimise people taking advantage, or to try and support people back into work where possible to improve quality of life for them.
It sucks in some ways, as it puts the honest people in a position where they have this stress. I'm not implying you are taking advantage at all by the way, and I am sure it is just a formality. If you have doctors letters backing you up, then I am sure it will all be fine.

Gosh I just reread that back and please, please don't think I am implying you are one of the dodgy ones. I'm just highlighting that sadly there are a lot of people out there who do!

@pondlife seriously, there really aren't very many people taking advantage of the system. I'm a disability benefits advisor.

OP, it totally fucking sucks but it's the reality of the way the system is administrated. The only people who don't seem to get asked to come to medicals are those with terminal conditions... and even they get a letter if they 'live too long'. However I have heard stirrings that they're getting better at leaving people with long term incurable conditions alone for longer periods post assessment so hopefully this may ease some worry.

Best advice I can give you is to study the reliability criteria and don't be drawn into best vs worst day scenario as they will make their own judgements on ratios. Come up with a reasonable 'average' day based on your symptoms and fluctuations if any. Can give more detailed advice if you PM me with details of your health conditions

I'm just highlighting that sadly there are a lot of people out there who do!

No there are not. Disability benefits have one of the lowest levels of fraud of all benefits.

Fraud in all benefits is dwarfed by evasion of tax.

Many disabled people have been pulled into these assessments and turned down even with life limiting conditions. Often at short notice so they don't have time to prepare. Often ignoring all the evidence from consultants and GPs and other HCPs with long term knowledge of the patient. Assessors are incentivised to turn down applicants and many are not qualified to comment on the particular medical conditions (particularly of the disability is complex mental health issues).

Many of the refusals are overturned at tribunals (and more probably would be if the victims were not too weak/poorly placed to endure an appeal). In the mean time however they are months without essential benefits.

UC is evil in its treatment of the sick and disabled.

OP: Can you take someone with you and are you in a support group for your particular medical condition? If not join one because its very likely they will have advisors to help members navigate the process.

Sorry to link and run, but there's lots of good info on this recent thread:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/3560507-do-i-have-a-good-chance-with-an-appeal-for-pip

It's really useful to go through the descriptors in advance so that you can make sure you answer the questions giving the full info relevant for the descriptor.

Remember, the descriptors include you being able to do activities safely, with reasonable repeatability, within a reasonable time, and on the majority of days.

IME the interviewer may not bother trying to collect this detail, so you have to make sure you've said it whether they explicitly asked or not.

I’m in the same position as you. Just got word yesterday I have to attend a medical too. I’m so scared about mine especially because last time I had one of these meetings they wrote a pack of lies that thankfully contradicted themselves so when we challenged it we won. Not looking forward to a repeat.

but there are a lot of people out there who are taking advantage of the system.

Have you seen the figures on how many disabled people have died waiting for appeals etc?

Please get it recorded. The assessor lied completely about my assessment including saying I came across cheerful. In fact I was crying, shaking and had a seizure due to the stress of it

but there are a lot of people out there who are taking advantage of the system

Been reading the daily have we? My god do people still think this? Have you any idea of the figures on disability benefit fraud and how hard it is the claim. If not please educate yourself

Also recommend having a friend or relative in the room, they don’t have to answer the questions but they can be a witness.

I’ve had an assessor say I can walk more than 20m unaided despite her having not seen me walk instead she did an assessment whilst I was sitting on the sofa.

Use the descriptors and talk about scenarios as if they are your worst days not best days

Remember that there are not assessing your medical condition per se, but how it affects your daily life. So be ready to describe how it affects your ability to cook for yourself and care for yourself etc.

You state....... content saying nothing changed, pain worsened due to new condition, and giving details.

You have a new condition and worse pain? This is why they need to review you! I've just had the same last week..

Don't trust them an inch, if they ask if you can do anything, your best answer is "No I can only do ....." chances are they will only record the no. Don't dress up, if you spend all day in pjs, then go to the assessment in them, let them see how you really are, don't make any special effort. They are watching you from the moment you enter the building, can you manage heavy doors, carry a bag, do you look at your phone in the waiting room, the slightest thing they will use against you. When you get the text message that the DWP have received the assessment report, ring them for a copy, the report is an indication of what level if any they have awarded you. Also take someone with you to the assessment if you can.

@Driftingthroughlife - I am educated on the issue from an anecdotal point of view, and my read sources are not from the Daily Mail. I am an Occupational Therapist who specialised in management of long term conditions, and I come across people on a weekly basis who are scamming the system. OTs are experts in assessment of function and how conditions affect people on a daily basis individually, and sadly there are a LOT of people out there pretending they can't do things that they clearly can for personal gain. The problem with this is that there are not enough support services to get to the bottom of why this is happening and to SUPPORT people back into work. They either force them back into work unfairly, or keep dishing out as they are being duped....which means someone who does need it misses out.
I completely agree the system is deeply flawed and as a result people are dying, or going through incredibly stressful times to evidence that they are in fact ill (I have a friend with MS who went through this and it was awful).
But looking at the bigger picture, there is not a never ending pot of money to socially support everyone, so we need to be identifying who really needs it, hence reassessment.
The biggest problem is the financial gain for the assessors, meaning that the whole thing becomes incredibly unethical and business like when we are talking about human beings. I completely disagree with how the whole system is set up and feel strongly it needs to be taken back purely by the public sector with no target driven implications, BUT that doesn't change the fact this was put in place (at least in part) to tackle fraud.

Having supported others through the process, my advice would be - do not minimise anything, but do not lie or exaggerate. Record the session - you need to get permission for this in advance. Bring someone with you.
Don't assume the assessor understands your difficulties or that they are obvious - spell it out for them.

"to try and support people back into work where possible to improve quality of life for them."

DLA and PIP are not out of work benefits.

"The problem with this is that there are not enough support services to get to the bottom of why this is happening and to SUPPORT people back into work."

DLA and PIP are not out of work benefits.

The problem with this is that there are not enough support services to get to the bottom of why this is happening and to SUPPORT people back into work.

I would think someone working in OT knows more about PIP?

It is not an out of work benefit. Many people actually only work because they are on PIP. and then there are, shock, horror, where no amount of support will help them into employment - some disabilities are just too complex and severe.

am an Occupational Therapist who specialised in management of long term conditions, and I come across people on a weekly basis who are scamming the system

So an expert who doesn't understand the basics of DLA/PIP? They are disability benefits not out of work benefits.

Many recipients of DLA/PIP are in paid work, often made possible by the additional support/transport which DLA funds.

BTW, I'm Pope Francis.

Record the session - you need to get permission for this in advance

Which you will struggle to achieve since they require you use defunct equipment which is near impossible to get. Anyone would think they are worried about what the recordings would show.

What's the percentage of people on PIP in work? I would have a thought a minority so pondlife post makes sense.

I don't get why posters always mention low fraud rate when do few investigations take place because they are too costly and time demanding to carry out to stand in court.

It makes sense to invest more resources in assessing people than investigating at random which would require months of surveillance to have enough evidence to take the person to court.

PIP is not a work based benefit. Whether you can or cannot work is not the key point. People who are working are claiming PIP fairly & squarely.

PIP is based on how your daily functioning is affected by your condition(s). So be very clear about this.

Previous posters on this & other MN PIP threads have given good advice. Bolds are mine

Record the session. Two key points: a) you have to tell the DWP now if you want to record the session (you have the right to request this). You must give at least three days notice of this. So ring tomorrow morning. You may have to go to another assessment centre or agree a different date for the interview to be recorded. b) you need to use DWP approved equipment - they will tell you what this is. From me experience, it is dual recording tape/CD machines, just like the ones you see used in police interviews on tv. You will need to provide your own tapes/writeable CDs, one copy of the session for you, one for the assessment centre. The most likely place you will get a machine is to borrow one from your local disability support/benefit rights centre. Try CAB for local contacts. Make sure you know how long it will take you to get your ands on one of these as you may need this information when you ring the DWP as they may only let you reschedule the appointment once. Take someone in you for the interview as a witness & to set up the machine for you. It is quite clunky kit so it’ll be helpful for you to have someone carry it in, put it down close enough for the mike, find the plug & sync the tapes to record. Make sure you practice this before hand as first time round it is a manual & unfamiliar process. The tapes you use for the interview MUST be unused & in their sealed wrappers, so use old tapes or spares to rehearse setting up the machine. Speak only when the machine is running, no interview or questions are answered until the tape is running.

‘It's really useful to go through the descriptors in advance so that you can make sure you answer the questions giving the full info relevant for the descriptor. Remember, the descriptors include you being able to do activities safely,
with reasonable repeatability,
within a reasonable time,
and on the majority of days.’

‘Best advice I can give you is to study the reliability criteria and don't be drawn into best vs worst day scenario as they will make their own judgements on ratios. Come up with a reasonable 'average' day based on your symptoms and fluctuations if any.’

‘ Can you take someone with you and are you in a support group for your particular medical condition? If not join one because its very likely they will have advisors to help members navigate the process.’ Always take someone in with you.

I work as a benefits adviser. I see a lot of people and wonder how on earth they are getting PIP and others who I am amazed that they get turned down. Sometimes it seems to make no sense at all. I supported a lady at home whilst she was being assessed. She told the assessor that she couldn't walk hardly at all. As soon as the assessor was gone she got up and swiftly walked to the kitchen to make me a cup of tea. Very odd. She was awarded enhanced on both parts and the following week started claiming carers allowance for allowance for looking after her elderly dad !!

Those who are supported back into work would still be able to claim PIP. How many people work or don't work is irrelevant.