Should I feel guilty

[pinksplutterweasel]

So....I don't really know how to start this one - it's really tricky. I grew up in a working class family in Wales. We had our own lovely house, money for everything we needed, foreign holidays, a couple of UK breaks every year. Basically wanted for nothing. I went to uni, moved to London at 23 and have been here every since. My husband and I do well for ourselves - not rolling in it like some of our friends with their massive detached houses - but we own our own 3 bed home in a great area in the suburbs, have two kids who, like me as a child, also want for nothing. I think every parent's wish is that their kids grow up and do well for themselves (and perhaps do a little bit better than they did). But I can't help but feel like my mum especially thinks that we're a bit too high and mighty. The reason for this? We have a cleaner, I ship out my ironing, my son plays tennis, I sometimes buy myself clothes in higher end high street shops (but not exclusively - I'm happy to pick up some bits in Sainsbury's and George at Asda too). We have bought nice furniture in some independent shops, we shop at Waitrose (but also Lidl and Tesco) and my friends are lawyers, doctors, accountants, teachers and architects (ie they're the typical parent at the kids local primary school - they're not privately educated). I think buying a fresh turkey at Christmas was probably the final straw. I really hate the idea that they think I'm the snob who doesn't think their ways are good enough for me. That's absolutely not the case. But our lives are very different - I buy help in cleaners and ironing ladies because we are so busy and with no family around to help us, I want to make sure that the free time I have is spent with the kids. We have a holiday booked in Cyprus this year - first time ever we have booked a 5 star B & B - and my mum's first thing to say was - "what's wrong with a TUI all inclusive?" And the answer is..."nothing" of course if you're happy to spend two weeks lying around a pool drinking crap slushy cocktails and eating a buffet that's been mauled by a million people. Not saying we wouldn't do that sort of holiday again but we like the freedom to eat out etc. I feel really guilty that I might be making them feel as though everything they did for me, and my fantastic childhood isn't good enough for my own kids. And the truth is - it absolutely is. My way is different but not better - and I don't know how to make that clear to her. Of course you may all agree with her in which case I'll prepare myself for the comments to come :-)

Yes because all those who rely upon state benefits are chavs ffs. Derailing completely. I have 3 children with autism and a partner who has a genetic condition identified in his 30s. He’s had 3 heart attacks and a triple bypass by the age of 41 and will never work due to on going complications so yes we’re the underclass and chavs and obviously have a poor work ethic. Tbh I think it’s your attitude that’s offensive

Words fail me.

notacooldad. I feel guilty because I feel as if I'm betraying my family somehow. Because I feel I have to either not tell them about things in my life that I know they'd disapprove of or bend the truth. My son taking tennis lessons is actually a big thing - she feels it's a bit showy and why can't he just be doing rugby or football at school. We'd have never thought of tennis for him had the local club not come into school and done a session with the kids when they were in year one. And yes I know we are lucky we can afford the weekly sessions at £10 a week but I think it's hard to know we can without worrying whereas my parents lived quite frugally day to day in order that we could afford all the nice things we got.

I thought you sounded ok up until

And the answer is..."nothing" of course if you're happy to spend two weeks lying around a pool drinking crap slushy cocktails and eating a buffet that's been mauled by a million people.

And then you revealed yourself to actually be really rather judgey and I strongly suspect this comes across to your mother.

Of course you can grow up in a working class family and own the house my mum & dad owned our ex-council house. My dad was a postman and mum worked part time in a shop. We went on holiday (although not abroad) but to think we were anything other than working class is ridiculous.

I think thou knew exactly how the term 'underclass' would go down on this thread.
Not just a snob but a GF too.

Thou ??
Should be 'that you'
Bloomin 16th century Auto correct.

Hahaha. This has made me chuckle.

'I don't know why my family think I'm a snob - just because I'm not an underclass lazy chav'

Let's hope you never have to become a full time carer for an elderly parent and have to rely on benefits like a waster.

Nice one OP

I love 'thou' 😁

Op I think your terminology and tone generally, is judgey.
I can definitely imagine how it sneaks into your psyche and life vocabulary. Your view of how your mother may interpret you is spot on.

I actually find other people's views of working class quite offensive

Same here. I think a lot of people on here associate working class with 'typical Jeremy Kyle participant'. I also grew up in a reasonably comfortable working class household where my parents worked hard, bought a nice 3 bed semi - because guess what, in the 1970s, a manual worker's wage would buy a decent family house where I lived and that's what most people did.

A lot of it is differering generations. For those of us brought up as children in the 1970s, there wasn't a lot to spend money on and people's money covered the basics, but didn't need to cover much else, because it didn't really exist. Now there is an awful lot to buy/do or services to buy in and people who were parents then who are now 60/70s might be a bit overwhelmed by everything they can spend their money on and how expensive it all is. So it all seems a bit extravagent. They might also not appreciate that more women work full time now, so pay for cleaners, childcare etc that wasn't done as much if at all 30/40 years ago.

I shocked my mother because I spent £600 on a mattress and said I didn't think it was particularly expensive.

I think you are getting a hard time here. Social scientists can't agree on the definition of working class so it is up for debate, but is that the point here?

Putting class totally aside - YOU are looking for a reason why your DM can't just be pleased for all your efforts, and find it in her to say well done I'm proud of all you've achieved!

Honestly, she probably is proud of you. Not to minimise your feelings, but you know all the things you mention are just material things, they are not important in the grand scheme of things - relationships are what matter.

A little aside, my DP always jokes 'oh you're going up in the world' and 'oooohh' when I talk about 'snazzy' things, as well as failing to understand why I would spend money on anything resembling fun.

I think you have to remember the world of their parents was a lot more black and white (ha literally on tv), there was a lot less choice, and there is an abundance more choices today. Mentally it all moves so quick and there is so much more to get your head round.

All of that means parents can get hypercritical of your choices. of course she is, more than anything, probably a bit envious that you can do those things, and perhaps deep down fears she may lose you. How about a family holiday together that she could come on one time?

You could just say 'we just like doing xyz'. Also I think humour may be your friend here too.

As I’m sure you know, money and class are not the same thing. It doesn’t matter that you buy a few bits at Whistles and can afford to avoid the lazy chavs at the manky all-inclusive buffet. You still come off quite clearly as unsophisticated, less educated, not very well traveled, prone to broadcasting your minor increase in material wealth among others whom you know are not similarly situated, and lacking basic understanding of cultural norms governing polite behavior and appropriate communication. So whatever class includes people like that is where you fit in. I know lots of working and middle class people and none of them behave like that. Perhaps you are upper or lower class? Or perhaps no class at all...?

Just bc your parents are your parents doesn’t mean they can’t be annoyed by your not particularly stealth boasting, and who can put you in your place if not your mum? Perhaps take it as a wake up call to think about how you’ve been acting rather than assuming it’s her problem. There’s nothing classier than being gracious, polite, and making others feel at ease.

OP, ignore the weird rude people on here. There are always people who desperately look for some nugget to build a whole story around, painting you as some sort of monster. I understand what you mean. You have explained yourself perfectly well and only people looking to abuse would take away that you are boasting or looking down on people. Heck, NO ONE certainly no one on MN is completely non-judgemental. All the nasty commenters need to look at who exactly is being judgemental.

Anyway, back to your post, there is not a lot you can do other than make sure you let your DM know how much you appreciate your wonderful childhood. People have all manner of hang-ups and perhaps your DM just feels a little insecure now looking at how far you have come. Other than this issue, how is your relationship with your DP?

Well i have an answer for you. You're a hideous snob. Chavs, underclass etc etc... Your language is horrible, judgemental, condescending, rude, snobby and unpleasant. I don't like like you just from reading your posts, can only imagine what your family thinks of you.

We had our own lovely house, money for everything we needed, foreign holidays, a couple of UK breaks every year. Basically wanted for nothing

Yeah that isn't working class mate. Like it really, really, really isn't! What do we call this situation? Maybe class-ical appropriation?

Late to the party but just realised you actually just labelled people "underclass" while making a plethora of assumptions about said people.

Working class family here - Dad a bobby, mum worked at least two jobs at any one time. Just enough money for rent and food. No nest egg. No savings. Worked jobs around school from 15 to save for driving lessons when I was old enough. Grafted to get into grammar school - very lucky as I know controversial. Hard to get straight As in and out of care settings. Would've been nice to revise without part time jobs and money worries. Somehow I did get them and then a grant for uni as no home funding - very lucky and much appreciated.

So I grew up working class and proud - having a career and money was aspirational and I've grafted to get where I am today. We joke when we have hummus or halloumi in the fridge now how we are clinging onto the middle class rung now, but jokingly and affectionally.

The fact you think you were hard up is offensive.

The way you describe people you seem as "underclass" is disgusting.

Either don't mention class or don't be so blind to the levels of poverty in this country that you think working class = going on holiday abroad every year and money for everything you want...

Be nice to hear you say you got that hit wrong and sorry if it offended, not just arguing. But that hasn't happened so let's maybe just reassign you to "the entitled and nasty class" eh? Cool.