Father of my children does not want to marry me!

[Jessil91]

So my BF of almost ten years who I live with and have two lovely children with does not believe in marriage. This wasn’t made clear to me til a few a days ago when we were for talking about it ( I just kind of assumed we would get married at some point given circumstances). I’ve never been a massive marriage advocate per se but I can’t help but feel really depressed and down about it, like he doesn’t want me or take our relationship seriously. I know that may sound silly since we have children together but I can’t help how I feel. There’s this feeling of rejection, like the man I love doesn’t love me enough to marry me. I communicated this with him and he turned round and said that his not believing in marriage is not personal and that he felt a little offended because I seemed more bothered about marriage then just being with him. But that’s not the case, I just believe in marriage and what it stands for and I want to legalise our relationship. I must add that he’s a great Dad and we have a healthy relationship otherwise.

Am I being stupid??? Any advice would be greatly appreciated !!

I knew just so many men who "did not believe in marriage" and "our children are a bigger commitment" with their old partners. Then a new young hot OW comes into the picture and bang - they are suddenly a believer and engaged within 3 months and everyone gets invitations for a castle-white dress-300 guests wedding, while the left behind woman chases him through the CSA.

The female name change on marriage is a hideously sexist practice and I can’t believe so many women do it so unthinkingly when they marry

I work with a woman who is in a same sex marriage. They have double barrelled their surnames so that they have the same surname. What are your thoughts on that?

(And I have deliberately specified that they are female because I think it is relevant here)

I just believe in marriage and what it stands for

What does it stand for? What is it that you believe in?

The wedding industry has a lot to answer for. So many people seem to believe marriage is about the wedding and has to wait till there's enough money for a huge wedding. It's not. It's about giving legal status to a relationship between two people who want to be treated as each other's next of kin and default heir; two people who far more often than not have children together and therefore have joint parenting responsibilities and, to some extent at least, joint finances. It's there to protect the interests of the lower earning partner if the relationship breaks up.

For most people it makes obvious financial and legal sense to get married. Having a wedding is an optional extra.

I didn’t want to get married and my boyfriend did. I bought a house with him, got pregnant, had two children, was perfectly happy and didn’t see the point in getting married. I don’t like people looking at me and so the thought of a marriage ceremony was horrifying and I felt that we were both secure as we were. We had been together for 22 years but then my Dad developed terminal cancer and told me. when he had two months to live, that he wanted to see me married before he died so he knew that I was legally and financially secure. I got over myself, booked a venue, got married 31 days later after the statutory waiting period and ten days before he died with just two witnesses. He couldn’t be there but he saw photos and was very pleased. I’m glad I did it but I don’t feel any more committed to my relationship than I did before.

I whole heartedly think weddings should be how they used to be (though not because people are pregnant although actually for a lot of women that would be no bad thing!)

just simple, married in a church or registry office, party at your local community centre. None of these abroad hen do's and stag do's and buying £1000 dresses and stressing about some massive event that in the end nobody will remember anyway.

I think there is something much more romantic about an old fashioned wedding than some of these big performances.

Many people do feel that marriage is outdated, antifeminist, etc. That is fair enough. It's unfortunate if they pair up with someone who wants to marry, though.
The thing is, if he was that determinedly anti-marriage, it would have been more likely that he'd have mentioned it at some point in the last ten years. The fact that it's only come up now suggests that he was simply not bothered, in the way that some men are not bothered because they don't have the awareness that being unmarried and a SAHM is risky. Basically, that's a 'women's problem' and they don't need to worry about it.
Of course, he could be the calculating sort that regards avoiding marriage is a way of ensuring he keeps hold of 'his' money and assets - and a way of telling himself that he's still free to walk away if some gorgeous celebrity crosses his path - or if he wants to go off and 'find himself' somewhere with hot sun and cheap drugs.

There are also men who really like being able to dangle marriage as a carrot to ensure that their partners are always at a disadvantage - it's easy to manipulate and control the proposal-hungry woman.

You know him, OP. If he's basically nice, have a chat with him about finances and the security of DC and how you can look after this stuff - it doesn't have to be marriage but you both need to make sure there's some sort of plan and structure in place. When you see how he reacts to this, you'll have a better idea of whether the relationship is worth investing any more energy in, or whether you would be better off making plans that benefit your DC and you and don't include him.

I cannot believe that women who fucking imagine that they are 'feminists' and doubly imagine that they are 'woke' in some cases on this thread, do not know what marriage is. AND ACTIVELY SNEER AT IT. Stop trumpeting your shocking ignorance.

Marriage protects the woman and children LEGALLY. Marriage is a legal contract about property and assets. A woman who is not married has far fewer legal rights in the event of both a split and the death of her partner.

Those who chunter on about lurve and commitment and name changes need to get fucking educated. Try google for a start.

at least hes honest just make sure your financially secure-i know someone who got engaged then found out he had no intention of marrying her

Talk to him about the contract rather than the ceremony.
Would he want you and your children to get his pension, make decisions about end of life care, arrange his funeral.
Would he like to do those things for you?
If so enter into the contract of marriage, you don’t need a ceremony, but you do need to sign the contract.

If he won't marry you because he 'doesn't beleive in marrioage', have you made other financial support arrangements should you split up? Not just for your children, but for you as well. Who owns your house? Are you saving for a pension (or anything else)? NOT being married could have severe long term financial consequences for you.

I'm also surprised that this didn't come up before you had children together tbh.

Ah yes, the 'engagement' game some men enjoy starting once they have got bored with the proposal game. Getting engaged, for this sort of man, is no big deal - he might even be able to convince the woman that she 'doesn't need' an expensive ring, or any ring at all. And he can carry on controlling and manipulating her by putting all sorts of obstacles in the way of the actual wedding - insisting it needs to be 'saved up for' so he can bully her every time she buys herself a small treat (while having any amount of justification for spending spare money on himself); manufacturing rows about the venue or the potential guest list so no decisions can be made, etc etc.

Many people do feel that marriage is outdated, antifeminist, etc. That is fair enough.

Their feminist approach would be rather more convincing and effective if so many of them didn't instead decide to engage in a model that is so much less advantageous for women as a class.

It must be heart breaking to hear that from him but keep in mind you two have been together for 10 years and created a family, I don't think there's a hidden message there (he doesn't want to marry you) .

It's strange to think but there are many people out there that don't believe in marriage, it just doesn't hold the same meaning anymore and how easy it is to get divorced takes away how special it's meant to mean.

Is he religious at all? Why do you want to get married? You said the meaning is important to you but what is that meaning?

Some people few marriage as the beginning to starting a family, living together, becoming a team and it seems you both already have that without getting married. I think sit with him and properly talk about why you're both opposed/for marriage, it could just be something really simple.

I have been shocked twice by men saying 'no, not happening!'. Both times I too the attitude they could ruddy sod off then.
You should be so lucky was my answer.

Your logic is completely wrong.

China also doesn't practice female genital mutilation.

By your logic, this means fgm is not a hideously sexist practice.

Not getting YOUR logic. China and many of the Spanish speaking countries are deeply patriarchal and woman's rights are shockingly poor. They never have had women take their husband's last names (ie, never have been allowed to). Therefore, how could taking your husband's last name be sexist and backward?

I really don't understand how you could jump to FGM from there . Just because it does not jive with your way of thinking (that a woman taking her husbands name is a leap back in terms of feminism) does not mean that it, from a global point of view, truly is a sign of the patriarchy.

WhyTho

It sounds as if you have put the legal requirements in place and made wills. If you have done that, of course you don't need to get married.
Have you read the thread?
The majority of people are explaining exactly this to the OP.
Either sign the marriage contract - cheap, quick, simple,
OR
Make wills, put property in joint names, get life insurance benefiting each other and children, get legal advice around medical POA etc, etc.
Probably more time consuming and expensive, but a perfectly valid choice if you don't want to get married.
The law of the country you live in is the law you are bound by - whether you like it or not.

Haven’t RTFT.

OP are you dependent on him financially? If so I suggest you work towards changing that.

"The wedding industry has a lot to answer for."

The wedding industry is a business that offers products that people may or may not want to buy to enhance their lives on a particular day, at the same time creating jobs and taxes through the industry.

People are quite free to accept or reject these offerings, just as they are with any thing else that's offered. We should be encouraging our children to think about their reaction to what's offered to them, no matter how desirable the offerer makes it seem, rather than encouraging them to think of themselves as poor helpless victims, swept into this and that action by powerful companies, unable to exercise any control over their own lives.

If anyone over the age of about 10 can't distinguish between a big fancy party, with or without various trimmings, and a potentially life-time commitment to another person, I would question what the adults around him or her are doing.

You need to be finding out what it is about marriage that he doesn't agree with.

• the big expensive blow out day?
• the focus on him / centre of attention
• the thought of planning it
• issues with relatives / who to invite?

or with legally being linked to you? Protecting you/children in the event of a split?

If he won't discuss his reasons I would be very concerned. The understandable reasons for not wanting to get married can be easily overcome with a small private ceremony just you & the kids. He should be willing to do this for you.

Peony yes, there are absolutely people who just don’t believe in or want to be part of marriage at all. I am one of them. I’m a woman. My reasons are as follows:

I think the history of marriage - while it may not be like this today - is incredibly sexist and patriarchal and about ownership of women

I want to keep my finances entirely separate, and I do not believe I’m responsible for the financial well-being of another adult. Everyone should strive for financial independence as much as their circumstances allow, and I probably wouldn’t even entertain dating someone who would need to rely on me financially.

I think marriage upholds sexist roles for men and women - men as the provider and women as the homemaker. This negatively affects both sexes, by putting undue pressure on men, and disincentiving women from being financially independent. I find it incredibly sad that some women think their personal value is raised by being a wife or mother or having their husband’s surname. That is the definition of patriarchal conditioning to me.

I want to be free to leave the relationship at any point I choose at no cost. It may last forever, or it may break down after 10 years or 6 months. If that happens, I want to walk away with the same assets I came in with.

If I wanted children, which I don’t, I would have lengthy discussions beforehand about the division of labour. There is absolutely no way I’d give up my career - I would theoretically only consider having children with someone who would split everything 50/50 including both of us reducing our working hours if necessary. I would not stop working so I feel it would be unfair to expect my partner to be a SAHD unless he expressly wanted to. If he did, and it was financially viable, I’d support him with a monthly allowance and the agreement he’d go back to work in a couple of years. If this arrangement was switched I would also find it acceptable - I’ve never been able to get my head around the concept of feeling like I’m entitled to access money I haven’t physically gone out and earned.

When I’m dating I make it clear very early on that not only am I not interested in marriage (and kids), I’m actively opposed to it. If it becomes clear the other person wants that in their future, I simply won’t continue seeing them because it’s something I won’t compromise on. It has no bearing on how much I might love the person - this is about me, my personal ideology and beliefs and I don’t see why they should ever come second to someone’s desire to marry

Hey OP. YANBU for being hurt about something that is important to you.

However, I don’t think that because he says he doesn’t want to get married means he is not into you, as opposed to marriage. I am in the reverse position. In a loving and committed relationship for 6+ years and about to welcome our first child together. My partner would probably marry me if I asked but for me it’s just not important. If we were to get married it would be because of pressure from friends/family and a need to keep up with the Joneses. We don’t need a slip of paper to know how committed to one another. We would rather spend the money on a holiday! I know it’s important to some people but because I’m not that invested in it, if we were to get married it would only be to prove something to other people, which is obviously the wrong reason for us.

Yes there are legal implications but they are currently not applicable to us. We own our home and bank accounts as joint tenants which means the other would be the beneficiary if something were to happen to one of us, and those assets are still well below the inheritance tax threshold. Other assets are negligible.

Maybe we will get married some day if necessary, but part of me is waiting for a case to come before the European Court of Human Rights to challenge the UK’s intestacy and inheritance laws as discriminatory as frankly I think they are a bit outdated! In a lot of countries they have a legal concept of a de facto relationship which gives people living in a partnership akin to marriage the same rights as married people. It’s ridiculous that people who go on Married at First Sight have more rights than us! (Not knocking the show - I love a good bit of reality TV!).

Sorry I’ve gone a bit of topic. Basically I don’t agree with the view that because he doesn’t want to get married it’s a sign that he doesn’t want to marry you. By that reasoning, the opposite would be true - that everyone who does get married does it for the right reasons, which is bollocks. Plenty of people get married to have a big showy off party, to overcome insecurities etc. Look at divorce rates.

Only you know him so only you can judge what his true motivations are. Has there been anything else to give you cause for concern?

The only thing that would worry me slightly is if he knows how much it means to you and still refuses (without a convincing reason). As other people here have said, it’s about compromise so I would be worried if he wouldn’t compromise on that by signing a bit of paper.