To be so fucking confused

[Shockedandsickened]

Have a 7mo DD with DP. We live in his home country. I am feeling massively homesick for the UK, this relationship isn't going well, and I just want to go home and start a new life. But it would mean DD could only see her dad a couple times a year for long stretches of a couple months (long haul) and this is breaking my heart. He is such a wonderful father and we do about 50 50 shared care. I wanted my DD to have a wonderful father she saw every day and was close to, which she does. But if I left I would be taking that away from her. I am just so homesick for the UK and also know it would give my daughter better opportunities. I am so confused.

Where will she go to school? You can ping to and fro for the next 3 years but once she starts school it's going to mean limited time abroad. Is he OK with that?
You also need to establish her country of residence as a baseline in case he decides to ignore that limited availability.

I think you should come back and arrange long visits there initially. You said it's better for you and DD and he would support this.

It's such a difficult thing to go through. My heart goes to you.

Keep communicating to your DH (and surround yourself with positive people if you can). I know your DH has said he's ok with this but does he really think you WILL do this? He's ok with you taking your daughter away from the country for long periods of time? If he's serious, you need to get this in writing from him. Could he accompany you on perhaps the first trip? I strongly advise from doing anything 'undercover' or sneaky. Be open and continue to communicate with your husband, it's his child also.

You're a good mum to, despite feeling so low, to be thinking of your daughter's and husband's relationship. I know there were moments for me where I could think of nothing but how could I 'get out of here'. Luckily the moments passed quickly.

I have heard stories (two first hand) of one parent taking a child overseas (for a holiday) and being stopped at the airport to check if the other parent had given approval (not verbal obviously). This was in Australia - not sure about other countries obviously.

Hope everything works out for you as a family.

I mean I strongly advise AGAINST doing anything undercover or sneaky (as in take your daughter on holiday to UK but then not return). I'm sure you're level headed enough to know this and you didn't have intentions anyway.

Shockedandsickened "I didn't mean to drip feed but he says he wants me to do what makes me happy and if that means going back to the UK with our DD then it's fine, as long as we return for long stretches at a time, which is doable as I work remotely. I just don't know if that's good for DD or fair."

To me, you have a choice, stay in the country but living away from your partner and be aware that his 'allowing' you to move back home with your child may change at some point in the future or stay in an unhappy relationship because you somehow think this is good for your child (you did not suggest it so I am assuming this is not an option, which is good), or move 'home' to your country and determine to make it work at home and make contact for your partner to see his child.

To me it is a total no-brainer. If the relationship is over, get out, get home and then work the rest out from there.

"If the relationship is over, get out, get home and then work the rest out from there." I mean legally, and all above board, while he is on board. I agree with others, do not do anything sneaky.

You lived there for a long while, were you with him for a while? If so, presumably you felt that things would go well. They have not.

You could try and make your relationship work, get counselling (as long as he is not abusive), you may be suffering from homesickness but why now after so long, do you have the baby blues a little bit?

If you dp is a good parent he will put the effort in to make it work, and you can too. But to stay a long time and risk not being able to leave with your child seems to me very reckless indeed. You are clearly not a selfish person, you are thinking of him, and your dd. He sounds kind and he is thinking of you but you say he is selfish so maybe you are now realising that whatever it is you do not want to be tied to him and his home country for life.

If you stay, and your dd stays, and grows up there and maybe gets married there, you will be tied to that place for life. If that is not what you want, think about this seriously now.

I do agree with you Italian however it's quite a bit more complicated than "To me it is a total no-brainer. If the relationship is over, get out, get home and then work the rest out from there."

A court could order the child be returned. That would be worse on the child than having two parents agree on the way forward and having the legal decision made beforehand.

this

If you stay, and your dd stays, and grows up there and maybe gets married there, you will be tied to that place for life. If that is not what you want, think about this seriously now.

On the forum that I read (that I mentioned before) I've seen people go through never feeling they fit into their new country but then their kids grow up, marry and start families in that country and they feel trapped. Obviously you don't live your life worrying about this and kids can move around anywhere in the world they wish to anyway (you did after all) but it is definitely something to think about.

I can give you the point of view from the child's perspective. My mother did this, in our case, against our father's wishes. I missed my father desperately. I remember the missing and pain being like a physical ache. It hurt me so badly. It really is an awful pain to go through. It is like a piece of your heart is in another country. Ask yor child what she wants. It is inportant to do that

I remember specifically one big impact from it. My heart was so broken at leaving my father, that I never got close to any person again : friends or boyfriends, for a long long time. I could not bear to feel the pain again. It really is a heartbreak.

wellhelloyou "A court could order the child be returned. That would be worse on the child than having two parents agree on the way forward and having the legal decision made beforehand."

Sorry, if I was not clear. What I mean is - if he is willing to allow this now, then I would take it. I would work with him to make it work. I would get the legal situation sorted and make it work. I would do nothing sneaky or underhand at all.

However, I wold not assume he will always feel like this and the longer the OP stays and the child stays there is a risk he will change his min.

Jaimemai I am really sorry this happened to you. "Ask yor child what she wants. It is inportant to do that" The child is 7 months old, that isn't really an option. Plus the OP i snot doing against the dads wishes and has said she wants to facilitate the relationship.

mind

Op's child is 7 months old not 7 years Jaimemai!

ah got you @Italiangreyhound. We're saying the same thing :-)

I thought when you said "get out, get home and then work the rest out from there" you meant just leave (almost a midnight flit!) and work it out from a different country. Got it now

Crossed post re the baby's age.

I'm not sure if your DH is saying that the whole family could return to the UK or that you and your DD could return? Either way he would want her (and you) to return to his country regularly. This might be a way forward if you think it is purely homesickness or PND which makes you feel the marriage is over. If you are sure this would only be delaying the inevitable break up it might be better to split now. If you can separate amicably that would be best for all of you.

Absolutely, I do not mean just flit off and leave. No way. Work with your partner and work things out the best way you can for the future of the relationship between daughter and dad. I am very sorry if I was not clear at first.

My first ever big relationships were with guys from abroad while abroad and I did think a lot about this with the guy i fell in love with. I had found out about the country's laws etc. In the end I married a man from my own country and it was never an issue but I do know that I would not move abroad now with dh, no matter how much I love him, because I'm so conscious about the issues around this.

Maybe that is wy I come across as very strident! I also know a person whose sister married a man from the USA and is now stuck there with the kids and unable to leave.

I'm not disputing these laws, I am just saying it's complicated! If the OP's dh is willing to make this work, I'd be grasping it with both hands. In the nicest possible way.

How are you going to manage long stints in the country you’re in right now, once your DC starts school?

Don’t you think long stints in another country will be destabilizing for a young child, pre-teen, teen?

Bottom line: what do you want more? To go to the UK for your sake, or for your DD to grow up with a present father?

I know it’s not helpful, but many many women have been where you are. They wait those 18 years.

7salmonswimming it's not 18 years though is it. It might be for life. The baby is 7 months old. The OP has to think of what is best for them all.

Do listen to italiangreyhound ..he might be willing now for you to leave now but could change his mind later. If you were my BF I'd tell you to get him to say that in writing (more then once) so you never get accused later of abducting the baby.Depending on which country you're in your future custody could depend on proving child's move was agreed. Consult a lawyer as people here are telling you. They might advise agreed paperwork stating he's ok for you to take child that you both sign. This is a serious potential minefield ! wits about you !!

I am sorry you're in this situation OP.

If you are able to go back for long periods then it could work but it sounds like you and your DP are expecting different things. It sounds like you are wanting to return to the UK because you feel your relationship as a couple is at an end, and he thinks its because you're homesick. Would things remain so amicable if you were to separate? If you were to xone back to the UK, spending long periods of time abroad would probably be OK for the first 2/3 years, but once your DD gets to around school age it may become more complicated.

Additionally, do check out the laws regarding one parent taking a child out of a country, particularly if you are not married to your DD's Father and she has his surname. We had DC's prior to getting married, they had DH's surname & I took them on a very short trip abroad to stay with my aunt. I got stopped in border security because they wanted to establish what relationship I was to the children and whether I had permission to remove them from the country. It was pretty scary at the time TBH.

I think an initial trip back to the UK could help you make a firm decision OP, but I really hope you are able to find a solution that works for all involved.

I would take what your dh is offering and go to the U.K. for an extended trip for starters.

Where do you live? Is the country part of The Hague convention? In the case of a split, who would get legal custody? Eg Dubai, that would be your dh. Dubai is not part of The Hague convention. Once on U.K. soil no way I’d take them back as you could lose custody the moment you return there and probably be deported / imprisoned / worse if he can “prove” you tried to abduct your dc. Other example, Switzerland. Part of The Hague convention. You can’t just register your child in the U.K. and not return.

I am one of those women stuck until youngest turns 18.

Even at this point with 18 just around the corner for my youngest, I have decisions to make. Can I just up and leave my children in their twenties/late teens? We don't all live close together but still...
Can I start my life over yet again in a country that has changed a lot since I left it?
What about the relationship with my children? What about grandchildren? I have none right now but that could change..
Then there is my mum, getting older, back home..

Things can look simple when you are somewhat at a distance from them. When they get a little closer the details become apparent and more significant. Time brings wrinkles.

Otoh...
Your DD is 7 months old and to be brutally blunt, will not miss her father. I suspect your feelings on her missing a father are related to your own feelings of missing some important part of your own life.

Your DD will adapt to a relationship with her father at long distance, with periods of closeness. He would presumably make an effort to get to the UK for short spells too apart from her school holidays (these are a few years off). Technology can allow them to be in contact.

............
You seem very sad and unable to see much good in any situation you envisage.

Not meaning to sound patronising, but could your intense homesickness and unhappiness with your relationship be down to depression or pnd?

How often are you able to get back to the UK for visits?
Do you have family who can visit you where you are?
Friends where you are, or friends in the UK who could visit?

Why did you leave the UK in the first place, and when?

Don't be tempted to do anything underhand.

Consult a lawyer and do not do anything just on the basis of a conversation with your H.

Everything wrt travel with the baby needs to be in writing.

oh OP, I feel for you! I have numerous friends in this situation and it is terrible to be away from your country and your family when your relationship breaks down.

The one thing I can reassure you about is if you decide to leave in-between the two countries (long stretches in both) it can work very well, we do it with our kids (mostly for work reasons, but we also have immediate family in two different continents) spending about half and half of our time in (mainly) two places.

We have done this even through school years (homeschooling for half the year). The kids are not at all upset by it, in fact, they love it, and have a strong identification with both of our main residences (they are also perfectly bilingual and learning another two languages). It is tiring for us though!

However, we have done this with the full support of our kids' school and not all schools would support it, and we are worried about what might happen when the kids are at high school, in that, I don't think we will still be able to do it then.

We also own houses in both countries, so moving is easier and kids have toys, clothes, bikes etc. in both and have the stability of returning to familiar places, and we have also family and friends in both.

Done this way, for the kids it is their normal, not destabilising in any sense.

This said, I don't know that I would take my child away from a loving father, it is one of her fundamental relationships, also, you say he is selfish, and yet he is willing to allow you to go back? it's a huge sacrifice for him! But maybe if your DD would have better opportunities here, and you would be much happier and you can facilitate a close relationship maybe it is worth it overall?

On the other hand, I am gobsmacked at people advising you to just take your DD, even without the father's consent, what a horrible thing to do to a parent! Not to mention illegal!