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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

AIBU or are The Builders...?

20 replies

cowcreamer · 19/04/2019 19:52

Argh not sure where to start with this. Posting in AIBU as I genuinely want to make sure we are not being dicks before we proceed and I know this is the place to find out! We want to withhold money from our builder...

We've not had building work done before so have made quite a lot of classic errors I think. We have had an extension built on the back of the house. We didn't get an architect as its basically a square box attached to the house with only the creation of a doorway from the existing house so no major structural work (to the existing house). I did the drawings for the planning application myself. The builder said he would (as part of his service) but they were rejected as not to scale. He then resent them but still not to scale so I did them myself to expedite things... I should have known then he was all talk and no trousers.

I'll try not to bore with too much detail but current state of play is that he has finished except the guttering. We have paid two installments and the final payment of 11,000 is due on completion. We have had a number of arguments along the way about things not being done as discussed but due to the crap contact (not nearly detailed enough, totally accept this was a massive error on our part) we have usually had to capitulate as its a case of he said she said.

However, there are few what we think to be major issues and grounds for withholding payment.

  1. Generally crap finish. Messy silicone work, uneven paintwork. Messy grouting around tiles, choosing cheap ugly material for the finish etc. So much more. I have about 30 photos of the crapness.
  1. Installed our sink to one side of the cabinet that houses it, so not central. Looks crap and if I were looking around a house and saw that it would make me question the quality of the rest the decor. He says he had to do it that way because the worktop would flex if it were put in the middle but we think a sink bracket would have easily solved the problem. He didnt consult us before making the decision to put it to one side. When we questioned it (honestly extremely politely by WhatsApp) he didnt reply but came storming into the house in a rage later that morning and was verbally abusive and intimidating towards my husband before even any words were spoken. My husband remained calm and diffused the situation but it was horrible.
  1. Didnt put end panels on the island, ie the ends are naked matt cabinet carcass rather than gloss end panels. He hasn't cut the worktop big enough to.accomodate the end panels. He says we didnt tell him to put them on. My husband says he did. We have end panels on everything else and also there was one left so pretty obvious we think. He obviously cut the worktop without thinking about it and is styling it out but without any written proof do we have a leg to stand on? Even though it would be fairly standard to not want naked cabinet carcass on display, esp if not the same finish as the rest the kitchen? Or are we being unreasonable?

Both 2&3 can only be fixed by replacing the worktops.

  1. He's fit the lock in the bifold door wrong. I don't want to bore with details but its possible the door will have to be replaced. Aa it stands at the moment if you fell against the door when it's closed but not locked it would swing open so very unsafe. Esp with toddlers around.

There's loads more but without wanting to go on and on... would we be unreasonable to withhold money for all/any of the above.

I understand were supposed to give him a snagging list but we really don't want him to do it because a) he can not control his temper and I don't feel comfortable having him in the house, esp when by myself with 2 under 2. And b) he's shit and I don't believe he will do it any better the second time around. He thinks he's done a good job already! Every time we've questioned anything in ever such a polite British way he's been at best defensive and at worst aggressive in his response. He lies to us about what is possible and what has been said and about many other things. He's just... awful! Please advise (if you can be arsed on this hot bank holiday evening). Thanks.

OP posts:
cowcreamer · 19/04/2019 20:03

Btw I realise this is a problem of the privileged... we are very lucky to even be in this position. But we've remortgaged up to the hilt to do it and it's just a bit all consuming!

OP posts:
Cherrysoup · 19/04/2019 20:10

Get someone else (preferably a couple of people) round to quote you for how much it would be to fix everything that is wrong. Don’t slag off original builder, it’s likely they know of each other. When you have the quotes, subtract that from the £11K and pay off original idiot then get the other people back to fix up the fuck ups.

cowcreamer · 19/04/2019 20:15

Thanks for your reply. So is is perfectly legal to do that?

Especially without giving him a chance to do it himself?

OP posts:
rwalker · 19/04/2019 20:16

problem 3 a good joiner should be able to take the side of the carcass off and make a new side out of an end panel

cowcreamer · 19/04/2019 20:20

Thanks. That's a good idea. And a good solution to offer the builder to show we are not just trying to screw him (although I'm almost past caring what he thinks)

OP posts:
Mammajay · 19/04/2019 20:20

Tricky one. I think you might need to get him to fix the things which are not right. Definitely don't pay until the work is completed t your satisfaction, but if you refuse to pay he could take you to court. Where did you find him? Did he come recommended? Did you get other quotes?

Thehop · 19/04/2019 20:26

Get quotes to have done properly and deduct it from final payment

cowcreamer · 19/04/2019 20:26

We don't know many people locally so posted on a local facebook page looking for recommendations and he got in touch. We got 2 other quotes. We chose him because he seemed experienced and had lots of ideas but I know now it was all talk. We spoke to his previous client for a reference and he said he had no complaints but he only did a small, week long job for him. He was clearly chosen as reference for this reason! We should have insisted on speaking to a previous client who had had a similar size of job done and I sort of knew this at the time but didnt want to seem like I didnt trust him and yes I know how ridiculous that sounds. Especially now!

OP posts:
cowcreamer · 19/04/2019 20:29

Can we get him to cover the cost of fixing the island (eg paying a joiner) given that it's a case of he said she said and no written instructions re end panels? Do people agree it's fairly standard or possibly not? He says mot everyone has end panels on an island. We say it's common enough he should have at least checked with us... esp as we have them on everything else

OP posts:
Still18atheart · 19/04/2019 20:31

Yabu! First mistake not getting a architect. As they are good go between and unprejudiced.
The reason behind the shoddiness of the finish is because they saw you coming I’m afraid.
As pp get some other builders in to quote you for how to correct it.

The fact that you said you have made rookie mistakes has confirmed this

Mallowmarshmallow · 19/04/2019 20:32

Is his name Matt C.?

I had a similar experience four years ago where I used a friend’s husband to fit my kitchen. It was an awful, 13 week long experience during the end of which I was very heavily pregnant.

If i had my time again I would do as mentioned above. Go elsewhere and get a quote for the work to be completed. Then I would’ve let him take me to the small claims court and explain to a judge exactly why I never wanted him to enter my house again.

As it is, I wonder if you do have to allow him to try to rectify the issues before you go elsewhere which is pretty rubbish given how he’s treated you.

bobstersmum · 19/04/2019 20:35

I would not pay the rest until its done to your satisfaction because if you do you'll never see him again!

RunAlexRun · 19/04/2019 20:37

I would keep contact in writing from now on; send an email or letter detailing the things that are not done correctly and say that you want them rectified before X date and before you make the final payment.

cowcreamer · 19/04/2019 20:41

No it's not Matt marshmallow but I suspect there are lots of these guys about!

Funnily enough I was also 6m pregnant when the work started! I'm now 7 weeks post partum (she came 3 weeks early) and we've been living out of our bedroom for.the last 4 weeks of the project with a newborn and toddler. He told us the old kitchen would be out of action max a week and only a couple of days without the sink or cooker and never without the fridge. We had cooked lots of freezer meals in preparation. As it turned out, we couldn't use any of it for a month and couldn't even get to the fridge. So were having to buy food every day for freshness and kept our milk on the windowsill! It was a huge extra expense and my mental health hovered on the brink with the newborn but I've just about managed ok. She learnt how to frown before smile though which makes me quite sad (!)

OP posts:
Bibijayne · 19/04/2019 21:01

Post on My Builder to get some quotes.

timetodance · 19/04/2019 21:20

We own our own business in construction (not builders) and although we've never had any issues so it's never come up with us, my understanding from a trading standards point of view is you have to give them a chance to adequately fix your issues. You cannot simply not pay them money owed without giving them the opportunity to rectify it.
As you say the kitchen issues can be fixed with new worktops and silicone etc can be re done. With the exception of the doors these are not expensive issues so it would be in his interest to re-do it as it's not 11k's worth!
Try to ignore his temper and be firm how you want it finished...he obviously wants paying so that should be his motivation to re-do it properly. I know we wouldn't hesitate if a customer was unhappy with something!

Cherrysoup · 19/04/2019 21:22

And mention Small Claims court if he gets arsey. Also call the police if he is verbally aggressive or tries to intimidate you. Do not tolerate his shit. It is beyond stupid to say he wasn’t expecting to put the end panel on and that he’s fucked up the door and the symmetry of the unit. What an asshole. No money til everything is fixed to your satisfaction by another firm. Who can tell what other fuck ups they might find?

cowcreamer · 20/04/2019 07:56

Thanks @Cherrysoup that's exactly what I think but he argues the toss about everything you start to wonder if you are the one being unreasonable! Having said that, it sounds as if we have to present him with a snagging list before going to quotes from other builders so that's what we'll do. I just don't want him in my house any more but maybe he is banking on that?! I also can't see him agreeing to replace the worktops as he hasn't admitted any responsibility with either mistake! God I hate this shit...

OP posts:
Cherrysoup · 20/04/2019 10:28

Stand firm, you’re the one with the power here. He wants the money, then he needs to fix the shit he’s done.

GregoryPeckingDuck · 20/04/2019 10:35

You need t get someone out to check the structure ASAP. It may be unsafe. It happens more often than you’d think.

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