Reducing childminder hours but still expected to pay?

[motherofboys10]

My two boys go to a lovely childminder, with the youngest going three full days a week. We would like to start him at pre-school (the same as his older brother) once a week, so we have raised the topic with the childminder. She has said that she would expect us to still pay her for that day, even though she won't be having him. There would be no wraparound hours, and we wont expect her to have him that day during the holidays, its just a (what I thought) relatively simple case of dropping a day. She says she can't afford to drop a day, and won't be able to fill it, as she will only be able to offer out a two day slot to another family (she currently already has one day free). My argument is - why is that my problem? She is suggesting that unless we agree to pay her for that day (which we won't ever use), we will have to pull the boys out altogether. Now I appreciate that this is her business and her rules. But we made our school choice based on the fact that she only does drop off and pick up at that one school (which is next to the pre-school). It wasn't the best school we saw, but it was good, and made most sense for making our lives easier. Now if we pull them out of her care, that decision seems pointless. We could have picked a BETTER school, and found a new childminder. Am I being unreasonable?? What would you do? I just can't bear the thought of paying for an extra day of childcare that we wont use!

[florentina1]

This is the same for shift workers and nursery. When you work 4 days on and 4 days off, your childcare needs change weekly. However my son pays5 days every week even though some days the child only attends 2 days, 3 days or 4 days a week.

[ArabellaDoreenFig]

Some of you are missing the point that childminders have to work to certain ratios in terms of who is on the books, the cm may be unable to add another pre school child to her books.

Also, the payment is a retainer for the space (plenty of nurseries do this btw) not a service charge, perfectly reasonable for the cm to do.

Good childminders are worth their weight in gold OP, if you have a good relationship with her (and very importantly if the kids do) then I would advise paying for the extra day (do stipulate you can use that day with minimum 48 hours notice though) or to be fair use it and have some time to yourself.

[AvocadoDream]

A client offers me a project that will start on 20 April and have a deadline of 5 May. I agree and block the time out of my work diary. I turn down offers from other clients for work with deadlines in that period. Then the client says actually the scope of the work has changed and now we just need a section of it doing, with a deadline of 28 April. I've lost work from all the clients I said no to. However, I wouldn't in a million years think of trying to get the client to pay me for the rest of the days initially discussed. That would be mad.

DarlingNikita, your example is incomparable with the OP’s, as you do one-off short-term projects while the childminders is ongoing, long-term, regular provision. She can’t operate like you do, her type of business a different kettle of fish altogether.

I am a tutor and I do not do one-off lessons for this very reason. It is a monthly rolling contract, whether you miss some of the lessons or attend every single one, the monthly tuition fee is the same. Otherwise I will have the situation when people will cancel on me left right and centre and I will have no ways to ever recoupe that lost income. So you either want a place, so make a commitment or I do not want you as my client.

I do offer catch-up lessons if given reasonable notice of absence, but otherwise I keep the fee for no-shows or cancellation on the day. I have a ‘capped’ capacity of so many hours, same as a childminder, and I cannot afford to lose any of that limited earning capacity.

[DarlingNikita]

OK, Avocado, I do see the point. But surely childminders know that children get older and WILL start doing fewer days because of starting pre-school? Can't/don't they build those considerations in to their business models?

[Smoggle]

Why would the childminder assume children will go to preschool if they offer the same curriculum and funding?

[Thingsthatgo]

It doesn’t matter whether the cm is being reasonable or not. She is entitled to choose her policies and you are entitled to use them or not. She hasn’t broken her contract.

[Nicknacky]

Because many people do send their kids to pre school?

[justarandomtricycle]

"Why is that my problem?" goes both ways, though.

If you have taken up a slot in someone's schedule that stops them booking other work and you want to pay less for that slot, they are perfectly entitled to ask you to vacate tbe slot or pay for it as originally agreed, just as you're entitled to not take the deal. There's no reason for hard feelings.

[Smoggle]

Some people sending their children to preschool doesn't mean the childminder should build an assumption into her business model.

She wants a minimum of three days, customers who want less are free to go elsewhere. Just like with any other childcare provider that has a minimum attendance.

[NutMeghan]

When does the youngest start school? Will she be able to maintain care for just the 2 days pre and post school once he does? This is what I would be concerned about.

I would suggest looking for an alternative childminder before starting your youngest at the preschool.

[Nicknacky]

Smoggle Not an assumption but they know it’s a real possibility. And in any case it would change when the kids start school anyway

[Smoggle]

The childminder doesn't want to accommodate dropping days for preschool though. So why should she?

[Mymadworld]

I'm a cm and if I had siblings Monday - Wednesday and they decided to drop the Tuesday I'd obviously not charge for that day as that's crackers, but i would tell them I might have to give notice. It's quite unusual IME for someone to just need 1 day so it's a complete pain for the childminder to fill whereas a 3 day week space would be much quicker to fill.

I'd make sure she understands that you don't need her for wraparound care as that's when most cm's charge despite not caring for the child - it would be very hard to fill the space for the time another child is at nursery but because we are doing wraparound, they are counted in our ratios so can't replace with another full day child. I'd much rather the child didn't go to nursery as I hate having to tell parents they are going to have to pay for a service they're not using.

[Nicknacky]

So she doesn’t need to. She’s self employed and can call the shots.

[Flobalob]

You currently have a contract where she has your child 3 days a week. You are asking to change the contract to 2 days a week. She can't afford to have that drop in income so she's said "if you still want me as your childminder then I can only still look after your child if you still pay me for 3 days. If not, then you need to find another childminder so I can find a family that does require 3 days".
Imagine if your work said, we need to cut your income by a third but the benefit is you get a day off. Could you afford to have your income cut by a third? Would you still be able to pay rent, bills, put food on the table for your kids, clothe them? She's saying that she can't afford to take that cut in her wages.

[NewAccount270219]

But surely childminders know that children get older and WILL start doing fewer days because of starting pre-school? Can't/don't they build those considerations in to their business models

What do you mean? You think she should have been charging OP a higher rate for years on the chance that she'd want to drop a day so she'd have savings for it or something?

[Nicknacky]

Where does the poster say that? But it’s obvious that it changes as kids get older, either by days or to before/after school if that is something she offers.

[NewAccount270219]

Right, but she doesn't have to keep caring for the kids until they turn 11, whatever hours the parents want, just because she had them when they were little. Is it good for a childminder's reputation to be flexible and so able to work with the same family over years? Absolutely. Does that outweigh the costs of that flexibility? That depends on the local market and her own situation.

[Smoggle]

It's not obvious at all that days change/drop until children start Reception. And then they aren't in the under 5s ratio so that financial impact is totally different.

[Nicknacky]

Smoggle You are saying the same thing I did so why does it sound like you are disagreeing?

I’m in Scotland, most kids in Cm go to nursery before school and the Cm’s realise and account for that.

[LisaSimpsonsbff]

Lisa, sure, but I'd be cutting off my nose to spite my face. At this stage I'll have lost work from people I've already turned down and I can't go back to them and say I want the work after all; they'll have given it to others by that point.

Well, that's why your analogy isn't great/appropriate, because the childminder thinks she can replace the child and it isn't a one-off thing, it's ongoing. As I said, whether you would do that depends on how easy it is for you to get other work. The point isn't whether you would turn down a job if they suddenly dropped down the amount of work they're offering, it's whether you reasonably could - clearly yes.

[Smoggle]

I'm in England and don't expect children to drop days for preschool.

[Nicknacky]

I didn’t say drop days for pre school, I don’t drop them. I still paid my childminder a full day while my daughters attended their 3 hours.

[Smoggle]

Yes, but the OP doesn't want to pay for the day she's dropping.

Others have suggested it should have been obvious to the CM that this would happen.

[Nicknacky]

Smoggle And that’s perfectly reasonable that she doesn’t want to. I wouldn’t either and I said that in my first post.

However, yes, childminders should realise that arrangements change when children get older, be it at age 3/4/5 or whatever. That IS obvious