Reducing childminder hours but still expected to pay?

[motherofboys10]

My two boys go to a lovely childminder, with the youngest going three full days a week. We would like to start him at pre-school (the same as his older brother) once a week, so we have raised the topic with the childminder. She has said that she would expect us to still pay her for that day, even though she won't be having him. There would be no wraparound hours, and we wont expect her to have him that day during the holidays, its just a (what I thought) relatively simple case of dropping a day. She says she can't afford to drop a day, and won't be able to fill it, as she will only be able to offer out a two day slot to another family (she currently already has one day free). My argument is - why is that my problem? She is suggesting that unless we agree to pay her for that day (which we won't ever use), we will have to pull the boys out altogether. Now I appreciate that this is her business and her rules. But we made our school choice based on the fact that she only does drop off and pick up at that one school (which is next to the pre-school). It wasn't the best school we saw, but it was good, and made most sense for making our lives easier. Now if we pull them out of her care, that decision seems pointless. We could have picked a BETTER school, and found a new childminder. Am I being unreasonable?? What would you do? I just can't bear the thought of paying for an extra day of childcare that we wont use!

[Piffle11]

I think YABU. Your DS was offered a place based on it being a 3 day agreement: you are now wanting to change that. She's said no ... in her experience, she will struggle to fill that day. If she offers places based on it being 3 days, then if you no longer want 3 days I guess it's a case of either paying for 3 or finding another CM. I think the bit about your choice of school doesn't come into it.

[motherofboys10]

Good to know I'm not on my own in being unsure of the standard in this situation! This has given real food for thought, thank you so much. Just FYI on us factoring in the cm in our decision on schools - I stand by it (and it was only a factor, not the sole reason). She's looked after my kids since the eldest was one, and she's great. Choosing a different school to the one we have done would mean finding a new childminder (for pre and post school twice a week for the eldest, and two days a week for the youngest). That, coupled with the start of a new school felt like too much change for our sensitive eldest. There were other factors too (its the school attached to eldests pre-school, so is familiar to him and lots of friends are going). Finding a great childminder feels like magic, I'd be terrified to move in case it went tits up - the most important thing to me is that the boys are happy. I want my youngest to ease into pre-school life, and go there while his brother is still there (only one term). But I really don't want to pay for a day I don't use. GAH! You guys have given some sound advice for a situation I was genuinely stumped by, and said things I'd not thought of. Thank you!

[alittleprivacy]

My argument is - why is that my problem?

Because you created the problem. You plan on leaving her without a day's income and the only solution she has to the problem is to stop doing business with you and free up her time in a way that allows her to meet her full earning potential again. That's all you, your problem that you created. Your children being in the school near her, is your problem not hers.

[motherofboys10]

Oh, and she never said she had a three day minimum. She obviously hasn't because she has two days free (if my youngest goes to pre-school) and she's offering that out to see if she gets any takers. There is nothing in the contract to suggest she only takes kids for three days.

[PCohle]

But she took you on on the basis that you would fill three days. You're the one changing the basis of the business relationship. Lots of childminders don't actually like siblings because if you leave/reduce days it makes a huge dent in their income.

[winterisstillcoming]

She entitled to drop you if you request to drop a day, as you are changing the terms of engagement and she doesn't have to agree to them.

Can you afford the 3 days? If so, put your child in preschool for another day and enjoy the day to yourself. I had to do similar when my youngest went to preschool but I
Felt that I had no choice as i needed her for holidays and when my youngest started school.

[TracyBeakerSoYeah]

Will your childminder be taking & collecting your youngest to/from preschool that day? Also will she be in loco parentis that day & so be the one who will collect your son if he is ill?
If yes I can see why your childminder wants to be paid for the preschool day.
When my DC were small & had days at preschool (only half days as this was years ago) I paid my childminder for the day, as I would drop DC at childminder on my way to work & childminder would take/collect DC to/from preschool & look after them until I finished work.

[Maryann1975]

I’m a childminder. I have never heard of other childminders doing this and if I were you I would call her bluff and up your hours at preschool. It’s completely fair enough for her to charge you for preschool hours if you need wrap around and holiday cover- you are in effect reserving the space for when you do need it. But if you are never going to use that space again, I think she is chancing it and it would leave a bad taste for me.

[MadameDD]

I think this is as someone else says, her business her choice, so find another CM if this doesn't suit you and give her relevant notice e.g. 1 month.

I may be giving up work and being a SAHM as currently 10-11 weeks pregnant and not sure if working past my new 6 month contract will work well with me and DD who will be 5 then and a young baby.

This means my current CM won't be needed any longer and if needed I'll use after school club.

I 'may' use CM if I return to work but will have to work out how she'll fit in if need be my DD and a baby. Current CM also cleans for me - and likes it but if this is too much, will have to review too.

[Jaxhog]

Totally reasonable - of her. Although it may depend on your contract (if you have one). As she and several people have said, if she can't find someone who just wants one day, then she has to drop you for someone who want all the days. She has to eat too, you know.

I'm guessing that you, and other detractors, don't work for a small business. Or you'd know the impact these 'little' changes can have.

[IWannaSeeHowItEnds]

The thing with cm is that there are no hard and fast rules as to what constitutes fairness or reasonable expectations. Much of it hinges on market forces - a cm in demand is always going to be able to set more favourable terms for themselves than cms who work in areas where there is a lot of childcare choice.
I think it would soften the blow of paying if you were to use this day as your back up in case your child needs collecting from preschool early or if you need the day during the school holidays. If she really is a fab cm then paying for this day might be worth it just for continuity of care and not having the stress of finding someone equally good.

[Grumpasaurous]

Our CM did this

They can only have x number of pre schoolers under their care.

Yours need dropping off and picking up from the pre school.

The likelihood of finding someone for those few hours your DC is in preschool is unlikely.

Therefore she’ll charge the usual rate for the day.

Our bill dropped when DS went to reception, as they were then in the next age bracket and she could accommodate pre and post school.

[mamaslatts]

So she's trying to get someone to fill the space? Has she said if she fills it you won't have to pay? Or is that your space so as others have said, if there is inset/holidays your son can go there on that day? Does seem pretty unreasonable. I guess she knows she was a big factor in the school choice and you are unlikely to leave.

[PepsiLola]

Do you have any local nurseries by you that will do before and after school pick ups (for all ages)?

My children's nursery have started doing this for another source of income after 30h was introduced. They have mini buses to collect children from various schools

[LisaSimpsonsbff]

She says she can't afford to drop a day, and won't be able to fill it, as she will only be able to offer out a two day slot to another family (she currently already has one day free). My argument is - why is that my problem?

It isn't your problem. But it isn't her problem if you have reasons why it's very inconvenient to find a new childminder, either. She's essentially saying that it doesn't work for her business to only have your child two days a week, and that's pretty reasonable. Think of it this way: if she'd suddenly announced that she wanted to change the arrangement from three days to two, before you had the other option of the preschool lined up, would you have thought it was ok for you to say 'well, I'm going to find a new childminder if you do that'?

[florentina1]

Can I put this to you another way?. If your employer told you that from now on you are only required to work 4 days instead of 5 , Would you happily take a pay cut? If you complained that you could not get another job for that one day, how would you feel if he told you ‘ that was not her problem’?

As an ex-childminder I would have this when parents were sick, or when granny picked them up early. I am surprised at the number of people who support your point of view. My take on this that as a childminder, I prefer to be fully booked.

[Goldmandra]

Grumpasaurous you're describing a completely different scenario.

[BackforGood]

She is BU. I assumed this was going to be the oft asked question about the CMer taking the dc to a playgroup but still having wraparound.
She can't morally charge you for a whole day you aren't using her at all.
Ultimately, though, she sets her own rules, and is just as entitled to give you notice, as you are to give her notice.
I wouldn't want to pay for a day when she wasn't having him every week, but maybe she knows that you are stuck?
I would certainly be making enquiries elsewhere to see if there really was an option for all your dc at the days / times you want, before saying anything back to her.
All CMers know that people don't always want FT. It goes with the territory. However, it depends what supply and demand is like in your area.

[LisaSimpsonsbff]

Finding a great childminder feels like magic, I'd be terrified to move in case it went tits up - the most important thing to me is that the boys are happy. I want my youngest to ease into pre-school life, and go there while his brother is still there (only one term). But I really don't want to pay for a day I don't use.

It sounds to me like this childminder is worth A LOT to you. If that's the case, then I'd pay for the extra day and just try not to think of it this way - think of it as you're paying for two days at a very expensive rate.

[Jeezoh]

My friend is a CM and she still charges for a minimum number of days, as it’s really hard to fill odd days. It’s up to you if you don’t want to meet her terms but she’s entitled to run her business how she chooses, and it’s not an unusual thing to do.

[underneaththeash]

Just put him in pre-school for the three days instead?

[DarlingNikita]

I think I'm being a bit thick, but I really don't see how anyone thinks the CM is being reasonable here.

How is it the OP's problem if the CM can't fill her days?

I work for myself in an area nothing like childminding, but the equivalent would be something like:

A client offers me a project that will start on 20 April and have a deadline of 5 May. I agree and block the time out of my work diary. I turn down offers from other clients for work with deadlines in that period. Then the client says actually the scope of the work has changed and now we just need a section of it doing, with a deadline of 28 April.

I've lost work from all the clients I said no to. However, I wouldn't in a million years think of trying to get the client to pay me for the rest of the days initially discussed. That would be mad.

[Jeezoh]

It’s a pretty standard term, many nurseries do the same to avoid them having lots of random days to fill.

[ScrewyMcScrewup]

DarlingNikita Lots of childminders seem to want the benefits of being employed (holiday pay etc) whilst being self-employed. They get away with it because parents don't want animosity with someone looking after their children.

[NailsNeedDoing]

Seems compeltly fair of the childminder to me. If she's can't afford to lose a days pay for your convenience then she can't afford it. She will have to do what she can to make the money up because she needs the money, not because she's being difficult for the sake of it.