Reducing childminder hours but still expected to pay?

[motherofboys10]

My two boys go to a lovely childminder, with the youngest going three full days a week. We would like to start him at pre-school (the same as his older brother) once a week, so we have raised the topic with the childminder. She has said that she would expect us to still pay her for that day, even though she won't be having him. There would be no wraparound hours, and we wont expect her to have him that day during the holidays, its just a (what I thought) relatively simple case of dropping a day. She says she can't afford to drop a day, and won't be able to fill it, as she will only be able to offer out a two day slot to another family (she currently already has one day free). My argument is - why is that my problem? She is suggesting that unless we agree to pay her for that day (which we won't ever use), we will have to pull the boys out altogether. Now I appreciate that this is her business and her rules. But we made our school choice based on the fact that she only does drop off and pick up at that one school (which is next to the pre-school). It wasn't the best school we saw, but it was good, and made most sense for making our lives easier. Now if we pull them out of her care, that decision seems pointless. We could have picked a BETTER school, and found a new childminder. Am I being unreasonable?? What would you do? I just can't bear the thought of paying for an extra day of childcare that we wont use!

[LisaSimpsonsbff]

However, yes, childminders should realise that arrangements change when children get older, be it at age 3/4/5 or whatever. That IS obvious

How has the childminder not realised that? She hasn't said it's come as a terrible shock, she just doesn't want to work around OP's new plans. I can't see what she should have done differently in advance to 'prepare' for this change?

[Nicknacky]

lisa I was referring to Smoggle posts.

[Smoggle]

It is obvious at school age though, which is a completely different issue as children move out of the under 5s ratio and no longer take a place.

No reason for it to be 'obvious' at 3 or 4.

[Sugarformyhoney]

It’s hard for cm to fill a day slot as most people require at least two- it’s unusual to only work one day. It’s totally reasonable of you to find a different cm but unreasonable of you to expect cm to stick to your now changed arrangement if it is going to be at cost to her.
I think she’s reasonable to say she needs someone to fill two days- after all, you changed the arrangement not her.
You may find it tricky to book da anywhere for just a day if demand is high in your area.
It sounds like the new arrangement isn’t going to work for either of you. It’s not her problem that you based school choices on her.

[Smoggle]

If anything I expect children's hours to increase at 3, as they get 30 hours funding.

[Nicknacky]

Smoggle You are clearly taking expection to my posts. I don’t say it is obvious at 3. I said 3/4/5 or whatever. And that things change as kids get older, why are you disagreeing with that?

[Smoggle]

NickyNacky - I'm not taking exception, I just think you're wrong. It's not obvious that children will decrease hours as they get older to go to preschool, it's not something I plan for.
Hours dropping when children start school is obvious, and is a different issue as ratios are different.

[LisaSimpsonsbff]

Thinking about it, the only mistake I think the childminder here is how she presented it. She should have said to OP 'I'm sorry but I can't drop down to two days so we'll have to terminate the contract if you do that' and then mentioned continuing to pay for a third day as an option only when OP was disappointed by this. OP seems to have interpreted this as a demand for money, but it isn't: the childminder is staying 'stick to the original contract or nothing'. The fact that OP can 'stick to the original contract' by paying for time she isn't using is a red herring here.

[Nicknacky]

smoggle It is obvious that at 3/4/5 or whatever (I’m repeating myself here) that the house will decrease. That’s not to say that dead on the 3rd birthday they will but it’s a real possibility. And that’s not to say the cost decreases. It didn’t for me but the hours my childminder physically had my child decreased after her 3rd birthday.

I hope that’s clearer for you now.

[Smoggle]

You keep saying it's obvious, but I disagree. It isn't obvious, if anything hours increase when funding kicks in.

[Nicknacky]

Only if you don’t use them at nursery surely? Like I say, I’m in Scotland. Very few of the kids don’t go to nursery and use the full funding at childminder,

[Nicknacky]

And I think it should be obvious to you by 5 (which is what I said) that hours will change......

[Smoggle]

Sure, when children go to school their hours change, but as I said that is fairly irrelevant as they no longer take up an early years place.

Maybe the OP and her CM aren't in Scotland, and the CM had no expectation that hours would decrease? It might be obvious to you, in your situation, but that doesn't make it universal.

[Nicknacky]

Smoggle I really think you are getting yourself tied up in knots about my posts. The main point is. Things change. Nothing is set in stone.

And regardless of Scotland/England/whatever, I’m sure childminders up and down the country realise things change when kids get older. If they don’t, then I worry about them.

[Smoggle]

Things can change any time, and of course children go to school, but there's no reason to expect hours to decrease due to nursery/pre-school.

[Nicknacky]

So a childminder never has at the back of their mind that a parents situation can change such as a break up, financial difficulties, new job etc?

They just assume things will stay the same and nothing will change? That’s naive.

[Smoggle]

Oh, are you just making a totally general point that circumstances can change, and it's nothing to do with children going to pre-school

[Nicknacky]

Why are you struggling with this? Hours can decrease due to pre-school. Surely that’s a possibility for a childminder instead of assuming things stay the same until school?

Nothing is set in stone on either side.

[strawberrypenguin]

Totally bonkers of her to think you'd pay for a day you don't use for the next x amount of years. Not unreasonable of her to say she can't accommodate and ask you to pull out completely.

[oblada]

Whilst I get the point that the cm can decide whether the arrangement is worth it for her etc it seems bonkers to charge the same for a day when she's not required to work. Does she not have any costs associated with looking after the kids? Does she not feed them or take them places? Surely she should be asking you to fill the gap you are leaving in her 'profits' at the most, to get a windfall from this new arrangement.

[oblada]

'Not', not 'to'

[Smoggle]

Nicknacky - it might be a possibility, but that's pretty far away from obvious. I assume my children's hours will stay the same until school, or maybe increase once they get funding, as that is usually what happens.

[Nicknacky]

Holy fuck smoggle You are being so obtuse.

But don’t assume the kids hours will stay the same. Life is full of changes and challenges.

[Smoggle]

I'll assume you realise it isn't obvious at all then

[Nicknacky]

So it’s not obvious at 3/4/5 or whatever that hours will change? Really?

Thank fuck you aren’t my childminder.