Reducing childminder hours but still expected to pay?

[motherofboys10]

My two boys go to a lovely childminder, with the youngest going three full days a week. We would like to start him at pre-school (the same as his older brother) once a week, so we have raised the topic with the childminder. She has said that she would expect us to still pay her for that day, even though she won't be having him. There would be no wraparound hours, and we wont expect her to have him that day during the holidays, its just a (what I thought) relatively simple case of dropping a day. She says she can't afford to drop a day, and won't be able to fill it, as she will only be able to offer out a two day slot to another family (she currently already has one day free). My argument is - why is that my problem? She is suggesting that unless we agree to pay her for that day (which we won't ever use), we will have to pull the boys out altogether. Now I appreciate that this is her business and her rules. But we made our school choice based on the fact that she only does drop off and pick up at that one school (which is next to the pre-school). It wasn't the best school we saw, but it was good, and made most sense for making our lives easier. Now if we pull them out of her care, that decision seems pointless. We could have picked a BETTER school, and found a new childminder. Am I being unreasonable?? What would you do? I just can't bear the thought of paying for an extra day of childcare that we wont use!

[NoCauseRebel]

OP has already said that there is nothing in her terms that she offers a three day minimum, so that point is entirely irrelevant.

At the end of the day there are notice periods and clauses in the contracts for a reason,and if the OP no longer requires a part of the service then she is quite within her rights to state that she no longer needs childcare for that day, and again, OP has said that there will be know wraparound care needed on that day, etc.

By saying to the OP that she will have to pay for a day she will never use is taking the piss spectacularly. In fact I’m not even sure if it’s legal.

Childminders around here charge about £50 a day, so that’s about £200 a week the OP is being expected to pay for a service she isn’t using. I can’t believe anyone actually thinks that is reasonable.

And one other thing, If the OP decided to pay her anyway, I would do so only with a written agreement that that day will always be available to the OP with no notice period given that she is paying for the service.

But personally I would find a new CM.

[LisaSimpsonsbff]

A client offers me a project that will start on 20 April and have a deadline of 5 May. I agree and block the time out of my work diary. I turn down offers from other clients for work with deadlines in that period. Then the client says actually the scope of the work has changed and now we just need a section of it doing, with a deadline of 28 April.

I've lost work from all the clients I said no to. However, I wouldn't in a million years think of trying to get the client to pay me for the rest of the days initially discussed. That would be mad.

But you can say: actually, I don't want the work under those terms. Thank you but I'll turn the work to the 28 April down now that it's only that limited amount. Surely you agree that's a perfectly reasonable thing to do? That you might want two weeks' work but not one, and so no thanks to the one week (as indeed you would have done if that had been all they were offering from the off). That's the position the childminder is in.

[LisaSimpsonsbff]

Whether or not you would do that depends on how easy it is for you to get work. Same is true of the childminder. She's giving the OP two choices: stick to the original agreement, or withdraw your children entirely. Whether that's a sensible thing for her to do depends on how easy it will be for her to fill the slots if the OP does withdraw entirely - but that's the risk the childminder is taking, and she's perfectly entitled to do so.

[LisaSimpsonsbff]

At the end of the day there are notice periods and clauses in the contracts for a reason,and if the OP no longer requires a part of the service then she is quite within her rights to state that she no longer needs childcare for that day, and again, OP has said that there will be know wraparound care needed on that day, etc.

Yes, and the childminder is perfectly entitled to end the contract if OP does this (as she is at any time). That's all she's saying - stick to the original contract or we'll end the arrangement entirely. Of course that's legal - how could it not be?

[DarlingNikita]

Lisa, sure, but I'd be cutting off my nose to spite my face. At this stage I'll have lost work from people I've already turned down and I can't go back to them and say I want the work after all; they'll have given it to others by that point.

[NoCauseRebel]

Because the original contract is based on three days at a daily rate. If the childminder wished to stipulate that given the OP has signed up to three days but if she reduces those days the same fee would still apply then that needed to be stipulated as a term in the contract. If it isn’t then she has no rights in that regard. She can of course terminate the contract but then she would be cutting off her nose to spite her face as she’d be giving up the contracts probably for two children with no guarantees that she could fill the slots.

But when it comes to the CM her choices are reduce the OP’s days (and fees) or terminate the contract.

[Nicknacky]

I think most if not all childminders realises that when children are approaching school age that the contract may change and days/times/pay will change. Mine has certainly changed several times over the 11 years I have used a Cm.

But I think the Cm is being unreasonable.

[Smoggle]

It doesn't really matter if she is being reasonable or not.

You just need to decide if you want 3 days or 0 days with her - she isn't offering 2 days.

Personally I would stick with 3 days. Either send him to preschool on the other days or don't bother with preschool.

If you think it would be fairly easy to find new childcare though, do that.

[PCohle]

If the childminder wished to stipulate that given the OP has signed up to three days but if she reduces those days the same fee would still apply then that needed to be stipulated as a term in the contract.

No it didn't. The OP is the one who wants to change their existing contract. The childminder is merely saying either we stick to the existing contractual terms or I can no longer provide the service.

She can of course terminate the contract but then she would be cutting off her nose to spite her face as she’d be giving up the contracts probably for two children with no guarantees that she could fill the slots.

Why do you think you know the childminder's business better than she does? She may very well have had inquires...

[Gingernut83]

I must say my childminder must be an absolute legend then ! Actually I already think they are - they literally only charge me for the time ds is there and if I pick him up early I stop being charged the moment I get there. Surprised this doesn’t seem to be the norm ?

[Nicknacky]

Ginger Not the norm and I can understand why. My first childminder did this for me although had to increase it to set says when I had my second. Saved me a fortune but god knows how she made money.

She did stop doing it and works in a nursery now, mind you.

[Asdf12345]

If your child is effectively filling a full week slot but only paying for part of it I don’t think she is being unreasonable at all. Either find someone to share the days with or move on.

[NoCauseRebel]

@PCohle so let’s say you hire a cleaner to clean your house for five hours a week, and you pay that cleaner £10 an hour. Then your circumstances change and you only need her for three hours a week,so you inform her that as of x date you only need her for three hours a week. Do you think then that the cleaner would be perfectly reasonable to say “erm no, you pay me £50 a week regardless of whether I clean for you for three or five hours a week, so the £50 charge stands,” thus making her hours payable at a higher rate now.

Let’s leave the termination of the contract aside because either party has the right to do that. But if you are paying for a service and you reduce that service, then they have no right to demand payment for the service you are no longer using.

[Gingernut83]

Nickynacky fair enough- I worked in Day nurseries myself for 10 years so I appreciate all settings are different. My childminder is a friend of a friend so maybe that’s why they are so flexible. On the other hand I don’t know what on earth we would do without them !

[DarlingNikita]

NoCause, that's how I see it.

[HJWT]

Lets put it in to perspective- for this woman to be able to pay her bills every month, or put some money in her savings OR have a nice day out for her family every now and again she HAS to fill 3 full days paid to do so, you want to drop 1 full day which she cannot fill with another child as no family would want 1 day only. So I don't personally think she is being unreasonable, I would pull the child out and let her fill the space with someone who wants it full time and try and find a child minder with 2 empty days...

[PCohle]

But if you are paying for a service and you reduce that service, then they have no right to demand payment for the service you are no longer using.

Of course they have the right to do that. Who do you think gets to set the fee a service provider charges if not them? It's up to the client whether they want to pay that higher fee mind.

[HJWT]

@NoCauseRebel that is VERY different, a cleaner can easily fill a 2 hour slot, a child minder would find it very difficult to fill a 1 day slot!!

[NoCauseRebel]

No it isn’t. The type of business is different, but the principle is exactly the same.

[NoCauseRebel]

Tbh though I wouldn’t be able to keep using her after this because I wouldn’t trust her to not take it out on my kids. So the relationship would be over for me at this stage.

[aidelmaidel]

Fair enough. She's saying you take the full package or nothing. Mine's like this too--DD used to go four days, but CM couldn't fill the other day, so she said look, it's five days or nothing because I can't afford to keep on like this.

[zsazsajuju]

Cm are such cf! Imagine asking you to pay indefinitely for whole day service you don’t want! That’s nuts.

If there’s an alternative, I would definitely use it.

[woolduvet]

You I presume have a contract and have every right to give the notice to drop a day.
She's also entitled to give you notice for business reasons.

[DarlingNikita]

HJWT, it's not a client's problem how someone is able to pay their bills or put some money in savings or have a nice day out None of my clients give a flying fuck about that aspect of my life.

I'm not convinced, either, that it would be that difficult for a childminder to fill a one-day slot. I know a fair few people who work four days a week and need childcare one day only.

[Smoggle]

I'm a childminder and I only do full days.
I don't charge by the hour, I don't do school hours, I don't do half days.

If someone wants 8.30am-3.30pm, they have to pay for 7.45am-6pm

A nursery near me does a minimum of two days - if you only need 1 day, you still have to pay for two.

This childminder has decided 3 days is her minimum. No one is forcing the OP to use her services if she can find a better alternative though.