"It's not the breed, it's the owner"

[Insertinspirationalquotehere]

There is a post on my local FB page today by a woman who was walking her dog, when it was attacked by another dog which was off its lead. The attacking dog was a husky cross type.

Cue lots of the above in the comments,people talking about their "big softies" etc

I do agree with this to an extent - an animal is an animal, you can't apply the same morals to it as you can a human, and I've seen plenty of badly trained, spoiled and snappy little dogs.

But AIBU to think that saying it's entirely the fault of the owner and nothing to do with the dog, isn't the whole picture either? A dog is, if you go back far enough, a wolf. Some breeds of dog surely remain more wolf like than others--a husky versus a chihuahua for example. Some dogs are bred specifically to be large and aggressive. Surely if the largest and most aggressive dogs breed, then of course you end up with a dog who is more likely to show these traits in certain situations? Of course with the right training, such dogs may be "big softies" all their life, but the streak in them is still closer to the surface.

I'm no expert, but I live rurally and I've been around dogs all my life, and there was a difference between yard/working dogs and pet dogs for a reason. Nobody would have a poodle herding sheep, so why give your child a husky? They have different traits and different strengths.

I get that it's not the defining factor, but I do think that surely breed has a part to play in dog behaviour?

Of course a dog can be dangerous and attack without warning.

However, that chance is decreased if it's been trained well and has good boundaries in its home environment.

Plus a good owner would still have their dog right next to them even if they behave impeccably in the past.

Good breeding also helps. I know it is fashionable to slate dog breeders now and only rescue, but good breeders breed for temperament as much as looks. If I was Queen of the World (soon, I just need to get my flying monkeys to stay airborne) I would ban backyard breeders. People breeding pets indiscriminately just to get a few quid. They are a bloody scourge. Rescues or good breeders with a proven track record only! People should grilled at point of purchase/adoption on their chosen dog, too many people buy for looks and have no idea what they are taking on or if they are compatible. Also, wolves are not viscous, aggressive creatures. Please do some reading on wold behaviour before stating such things.

We had dogs and cats, together and separate, range of breeds including a Labrador and a Cairn. I was smug. All our pets were very gentle and affectionate with people and other animals. The Labrador would let the cat scratch its face on her teeth. Oh yes, it was the owners, we made these animals so sweet and loving...especially the cats.
Then we decided we were too old for a new dog we would stick with cats. All our other cats were loving etc but the three we have now, standoffish, nervous, destructive etc. We are elderly and will love the three horrors till we die. It must be our fault,”it’s the owners”. Fortunately our friends will take them if need be. Our dd refuses to believe we have three cats as after 3 years one only appears when we are alone.
Some of the nature/nurture question must be down to nature surely.

Pp not op bloody auto correct

Wolf, not wold.

My Chihuahua is an amazing, intelligent and well bred dog. He's well trained and gets a told off if he's naughty. Badly behaved Chihuahuas are an owners doing.

But I would rather take my chances against a chi than a husky.

I think it's not as black and white as either a breed or owner issue.

I have terriers. They were bred to hunt and have a reputation for being snappy, stubborn and hard work.

Ddog 1 (now passed), never even attempted to hunt anything, even as a puppy. Couldn't be bothered so we didn't have to train it out of him. He was naturally laid back.
DDog 2 is almost 15 and would still hunt things if she could. We've trained her very well and even though she responds to commands, it's clear that her instinct to hunt is always there, she just listens to the instinct to obey first.
DDog3 hunts little things (flies / spiders) but nothing big (and ran away from a cat).

I think some people buy dogs for their breed and encourage the stereotypical breed behaviour but actually, if you wanted a staffy / mastiff etc to behave like a family friendly big dog, you could easily train it to do so, just like you could easily get a lab or a collie and teach it to be aggressive.

The only dog that has attacked me had a brain tumour and turned without warning or provocation. No amount of good training and careful ownership can protect against a dog getting ill or being in pain. So I understand why people say ‘deed, not breed’ and wheel out the Labrador stats on these threads and point out how aggressive chihuahuas are - but I disagree. Big, strong dogs will do unthinkable, irreparable damage if they attack whereas small dogs simply aren’t capable of killing or maiming people. Any dog can get ill and the most attentive and responsible owner may not know until that dog attacks. At which point, if you have a husky or a pit bull or a Staffy, the victim is in terrible danger.

I don’t think people should be allowed to own dogs with the capacity to kill grown adults. However well trained that dog, any dog can attack in the right circumstances.

It's difficult because whilst all badly-trained dogs can bite, some dogs bites are just so much more destructive. So there's likely to be a huge discrepancy between the number of bites versus the number of bites reported, because little dog bites just don't do as much damage.

Our spaniel is a lovely old girl but came to us as a rescue with very little history. She bit me not long after moving in and it took a long time to train her into an animal I trust. And whilst I do trust her, she also isn't ever left with children because with a dog who has form you just don't know if they'll ever repeat the bite. So often owners will say "oh he's not normally like this" when their dog behaves badly when you know full well you saw the dog doing the exact same thing last week and the week before. That kind of crap owner ought to be challenged.

Breed matters for sure. We've got a Jack Russell, known as the breed most likely to bite, as they were bred to hunt and kill rats. I have no idea why they are so popular. Milo is the most difficult dog we've ever had, it is the brewed, not us that is different. Having said that we love him beyond measured for his intelligent characterful self

The guy (kennel/cattery owner) who takes my cat and dog when we're on holiday told me once that the only breed of dog he refuses to take is huskys. I think it can sometimes be the breed and maybe a mix of both?

Did he say why?

I could say the same about most humans. I'm sure some mums train their kids not to misbehave and try and instill good manors etc, but doesn't stop them from fighting or getting agitated sometimes.

I own a Jack Russell and a pit bull. My pit is as daft as a brush and just wants to be cuddled or stroked, he's a daft as a brush and recently in December both my dogs were attached by a pack of 4 collies, the Jack Russell was the one to stand and defend himself while my pit ran away

I agree with you op. As much as some is to do with the owner, I also know of at least two police dogs, both German shepherds, who have attacked another dog whilst off lead in their leisure time. These are the most well trained, highly socialised dogs from puppies, with the best trainers and handlers managing them, and it still happens. So yes, sometimes it is the breed. There simply is no two ways about it.

But @Bluntness100 you’ve literally just said there is two ways about it...your last sentence contradicts your second.

OP, I think it has to be a mixture of both, all dogs will attack, it doesn’t matter how well trained they are.

So it comes down to should we be allowed to own dogs at all? Or just small ones? (Even a bit from a small dog that breaks the skin should be seen by a GP in case if tetanus etc) or maybe we should concentrate on the dangerous breed (humans) who don’t recognise that even the cuddly family Labrador can kill in the right circumstances.

There should be more criminal sanctions on the owners of out of control dogs rather than focusing on breeds I think.

you’ve literally just said there is two ways about it...your last sentence contradicts your second.

How? I don't understand how I am contradicting myself?

My Chihuahua can be a little bastard,most are.Nothing to do with me I promise!

“As much as some is to do with the owner” followed by “sometimes it is the breed”

So two ways surely? It can be one way or the other?

Apologies if I’ve misunderstood and I suppose it’s not actually relevant but English isn’t my first language so I like to double check when I’ve not understood something.

Husky dogs are not descendents of wolves.

They were bred by the Chukcha people to work, they kept their families and children warm over winter and helped with transport in exchange for food and then wandered on their own in the summer.

If you’re going to use an example atleast make sure it’s accurate.

Your ignorance is unreasonable.

I don’t disagree that some breeds are more inclined to be an issue with people. Ie guarding breeds. All working dogs (and all dogs) should be treated with respect and consideration given to their breeds needs. The problem is nobody educated themselves they just pick a dog based on looks.

its the owners fault is the same as always blaming the parents. Some dogs are just arseholes and no amount of love and training is going to change their basic temperament significantly

Did he say why?

He said he used to but he always had problems with them around the other animals he had, not so much with people

If a dog is an arsehole the owner should take measures to make sure its arsehole tendencies don’t impact on anyone else.

It's true that a high percentage of dog bites are from labradors.

It's also true that one of the most popular breeds of dog in Britain is the labrador. Therefore it is unsurprising that most dog bites come from them, since they're an extremely common dog.

Unless you can break it down into the number of bites per labrador vs the number of bites per alsatian (for example) then that number has very little meaning and it's impossible to infer that one breed is more prone to bite than another.

Worse dog attack I have ever seen was by a cockapoo who launched itself at a King Charles spaniel and grabbed it by the neck.

My own ddog was a staffie crossed with a lab and had a mix of German Shepherd. She was the sweetest girl you could get.

The trouble with "there's no such thing as a bad dog, just bad owners" and related maxims is that it leads people to assume that the person holding the lead is the one responsible for the dog's issues.

Some people rescue and take on dogs with issues and are working very hard to resolve those issues. I've long since lost count of the number of filthy looks and muttered judgements I've had when my little rescue terrier cross has started lunging and barking at motorbikes - an issue I've been working on for a long time and have had great success with, but will probably never be fully resolved. He'll kill your motorbike but he'll be perfectly nice to your children...

Some people do everything right but something beyond their control happens to that dog - for instance, I know people whose well balanced dogs have developed issues after being attacked by a dog and kicked by a child.

In very rare cases, people do everything right with their new puppy but they get one that has issues from early on for no apparent reason and essentially appears to not be wired quite right, a bit like a human child with a variety of MH / behavioural problems.

As for breed, one of the issues with huskies is that they've been bred to run for miles and miles without stopping. Unfortunately, they've become popular because they bear a passing resemblance to Game of Thrones Direwolves, which has encouraged frankly unsuitable owners to buy them. When they don't get the exercise they start to go a bit stir crazy...

Breed does impact behaviour (eg different exercise needs, intelligence, desire to hunt small furry things, desire to herd things, desire to guard things) but there's no clear data on chances of biting, for a variety of reasons. A previous dog of mine was attacked twice by labradors (completely unprovoked) and nearly died on one occasion. On the other hand little DDog has had some cracking fun playing with staffies and rottweilers, and has been sent packing by a couple of chihuahuas...