To think that wills should be public documents

[GnomeDePlume]

before the testator dies.

Not a TAAT but so many times in RL and on MN I have heard about wills which do the opposite of what was intended or which make assumptions about who should/should not benefit from an estate.

If the will was public then any potentially interested person could read the will. If they dont agree with it then they can raise it with the testator.

As wills are often made many years before the testator dies clauses which seemed perfectly fair at the time can become out of date (eg leaving an estate to named grandchildren can seem like a nice thing until a late arriving grandchild is born and not being named is effectively disinherited).

The testator has to own the decisions they have made rather than leave the executor to deal with everything whe there is nothing they can do to change things.

Because up to the point of death the testator or testatrix is entitled to (a) spend what they like on anything they like; and (b) change their will.

OP you are being unreasonable

^^ reply to OP

😂 Willow, in case you didn’t know, I was extremely interested to discover (MoneyBox, BBC) just a few days ago that unlike some debts, most credit card debts die with you. I immediately began rehearsing the conversation “Yes, Mr. AmEx, that’s right, £10,000 limit please. What’s that, my age, oh a mere 97 ...” grin

Thanks Langrish will keep that in mind

Oops!

Willow, in case you didn’t know, I was extremely interested to discover (MoneyBox, BBC) just a few days ago that unlike some debts, most credit card debts die with you. I immediately began rehearsing the conversation “Yes, Mr. AmEx, that’s right, £10,000 limit please. What’s that, my age, oh a mere 97 ...

Debts cannot be passed on, as in your NOK are not responsible for paying them, but AMEX and 10K? AMEX will seek to recover that, quite probably with a charge over the house (if owned rather than rented) so when it's sold they will take back that 10K plus charges incurred. Every effort will be made to collect that debt from the estate

While I wouldn’t want the contents of wills made public I do wonder if there isn’t a case for having to register your will for it to be valid? Just throwing the thought out for discussion? Registered in a way that only when someone dies can you see if there was a will (and possibly who the executors are)...but no access to contents.

I always wondered that, @PetraDelphiki. How do people know they are looking at the latest version and there isn't a more current one hidden under the sofa? What happens if everything is distributed based on one version of a will and then a later one is discovered?

Bonkers idea.

I don't think OP has experienced the extreme noisiness that some neighbours can display.
I have dealt with deaths and sales of property in recent years and I was asked some seriously unbelievable questions, such as how much did you get for that house, what did X die of, what are you doing about A B or C ad nauseum.
As a result of such harsh questions from people who are just plain ignorant with no business knowing anything, I do not answer such questions. The questioning backfired, they now get no answer or a ridiculous answer.

debts are not passed on but are expected to be settled out of the estate, however if the estate is only worth 5k and the debts are worth 7k no one is liable for the 2k difference but the 5k will need to be used to settle debts
in many countries you can't disinherit spouses or children in fact this is the case in Scotland a will can't override the law
moveable assets ( ie cash pensions shares savings furniture jewellery art) spouse is entitled to a minimum of a third and any children share another third, you can't leave 100% to your spouse; so if you have 2 children they get a minimum of a sixth each, the remaining third you can leave anyhow you choose including more to spouse or children or Oxfam cats donkeys water aid etc or second cousin Fred best friend Mary Etc

There are different rules regarding immovable assets like houses and land
I think England is quite unusual in having complete testator freedom the USA also has it but most of Europe does not, like Scotland children and spouses can not be excluded

No. My will is PRIVATE it’s NOT up for public debate.

Credit card debts do not die with you. They come off the estate as far as I am aware just like your mortgage, money you owe your sibilngs and any other debts.

However if someone dies without any house equity, savings, life insurance, car which could be sold or other assets then anyone who is owed money will not get it (unless the assets or credit card were in joint names or with a guarantor).

I do not agree wills sghould be public but we certainly always circulate each new will around the family so no one is in the dark and my father always did that too.

Common law states like England and the US allow people to decide where they leave their estate. (That does not mean in England a dependant child etc could not try to make some kind of claim under legislation from the 1970s but on the whole most people leaving adult children who sre self supporting etc can decide if it all goes to the cat's home, to repay national debt, to a serial killer or whatever)

I have to agree with the majority OP but I do also see your point, particularly about the utter devastation an either poorly worded will or a deliberately inflammatory will can leave. And those saying well if the person leaving had wanted to change it, they would. What utter rubbish! We all lead busy lives, people forget/put it off whatever and then a beloved grand child gets left out.

BTW - what has happened to this site??? Why can’t there be a debate about anything interesting without the deluge of personal insult and abuse? Ffs - some people need to grow up and stop behaving like bitchy teenagers. It called an opinion and everyone is allowed one.

To be honest, I'd love to be able to see my ex-husband's will (if he's even bothered to do one) just to see if he's excluded our son who he stopped contacting over 5.5 years ago.
Apparently now that he's got his new family, he's not interested in my poor boy.....

@crispysausagerolls
Not sure if anyone answered your question. Sorry if they have and I missed it. Download a copy of the grant of probate. It'll have the solicitors details on it if your father used one. Contact them and tell them you do not wish them to pass your details to your father. Hope that's helpful.

@PetraDelphiki I totally agree with that idea. I think Germany do this. At least that way it's clear which Will is the latest.

Er, I was jesting, PlainSpeaking,calm down But Paul Lewis most definitely said that most credit card debts die with you. Husband and I looked at each other at the exact same moment and said, “ooh, do they now?”

What a ridiculous idea

My will is private and will stay that way. And all of the OP's arguments for making wills public while the testator is still alive apply better to a proper public information programme.

As for the argument that wills are eventually published anyway, yes after you're dead. So, no criminals looking at what you're worth and targeting you, no relatives trying to badger you into changes, etc, etc.

Because my money is mine until I die. I will make the decisions for disposal, I certainly won't be inviting thoughts on what to do or allowing anyone to badger me.

credit cards are not issued in joint names there is a card holder and an additional card holder, the additional card holder is not responsible for the credit card debt, however the debt does have to be paid out of the estate
if there is absolutely nothing or insufficient in the estate then most credit card companies will write it off though any creditor can force the sale of assets like cars in the debtors name, if you own a house it depends how it is owned but if you are tenants in common, they may expect debt to be paid out of the deceased's share of equity ( as mortgage would need to be paid off before a credit card debt) so in theory they could force a house sale.
you can't distribute any money to heirs before all debts settled and funeral costs paid any overpayment of benefits /pensions returned and any income tax due on the last years earnings

OP you sound like a grabby entitled vulture.

Wills are private and delicate matters and what it includes is up to whoever writes it. If that includes naming people specifically and not updating it then that's what happens.

Clearly there is something regarding a will you're bitter about.

@Thesnobbymiddleclassone where have I been grabby? I think you have misread something.

We are in the older generation so we are the ones writing wills (in our case for the second time since the first ones were written when DCs were small and the needs were different).

But in the case of sharing your estate equally between your children or grandchildren you’d have to be batshit crazy to name individuals and not add a clause for any others born subsequently. And if your will is more complex why quantify sums of money to be left to individuals, given that your assets will go up or down in value? Makes more sense do specify a percentage of the value of the estate rather than a specific amount.

I think there’s a case for better education around the importance of making a will. But totally nuts to suggest they should be made public. If you’re making a will which treats your family equitably surely you wouldn’t hide it from them anyway? Our kids know our estate will pass to me or dh, whoever outlives the Other, and then eventually be shared equally among them.

Wills are the value of the estate of a person who has died

5 years before they could have had millions in the bank
but then needed high dependency dementia care
so there is NOTHING left

would help the family to know they should have pushed grandad off a bridge years before to make themselves rich?
Really ?