To think sending bailiffs after desperate people is despicable

[Catsinspring]

If someone can’t pay their council tax, threatening them with bailiff action is awful. People end up owning hundreds of pounds. I am horrified.

@MichaelMorrissMam

This was before bodycams were common, thankfully I've never had to deal with them again because, well, I've not had to have emergency surgery and time off sick afterwards which was what caused it all in the first place.
I know why they'd levy on a car, but if they'd done their job properly, they'd have realised that I didn't own it wouldn't they? So a levy on the car was utterly pointless, as was threats that if the car was moved I'd be arrested.
And as for complaining...... That's a joke in itself. I had written proof that a bailiff was intimidating me.
I'd tried setting up a payment plan, sent copies of bank statements and letters proving my income, or rather lack of it, and their counter demands, hospital discharge letters, the works to the council and bailiffs. I got a 'computer says no' letter back from the council. The bailiffs ignored it and I got a letter through hand delivered through the door saying I had 24 hours to pay over £1000, or they'd be returning with a locksmith and I'd be arrested and taken to prison (handwritten on the official 24 hours notice of attendance). I rang the number, he told me the same thing, oh and added if my daughter was there she'd be taken into care. Do you know what I did? I went and handed myself in at the police station! Because I didn't have what they wanted. They were baffled, but a kindly sergeant looked into it. Nothing that bailiff wrote on that page he could have actually done legally, and the police spoke to the bailiffs. Suddenly the whole thing went away, or at least they did, I got a payment plan with the council all of a sudden (previously refused) and no more bailiffs. The sergeant told me to complain about the bailiff to the court he was certificated at - still waiting to hear back!
Yes, I owed the money, and was absolutely willing to pay it, but I wasn't squandering money on luxuries I didn't have it! At the time I remember thinking I'd have been better off if I'd collapsed at home with appendicitis and died instead of at work and being rushed to hospital because I wouldn't have had to go through that!
I deserved that did I? I deserved absolutely no help from the council and threats and intimidation from bailiffs because of something out of my control? I tried so very hard to show I wasn't just not paying - no one gave a shiny shite. And the bailiff got away with it.
Yeah, totally fair system.

Brilliantidiot I never said you deserved it. I told you what would be done now. I don't know how things were dealt with prior to that I'm afraid. I'm sorry you had an enforcement agent who treated you badly and unlawfully, that is a disgrace and they should not be allowed to enforce.

I used to work in debt collection for an electricity company where we had the power to write off debt if we had good reason to, however the Council Tax is a tax you can't just write it off because someone hasn't paid their bill. I really wish we could in some cases.

Where I worked, we bent over backward to help people with payment arrangements. There are a set number of letters that go out depending on circumstance but it would be a reminder, (a second reminder only if the payment was brought up to date but you only ever get the reminder once, if you fall into arrears again it goes straight to final notice.)

Yes the irony of not being able to pay £150 and now asking for £900 is not lost on council tax workers. But if you keep failing to pay we have to do something to collect it in. The liability order that is obtained through the courts grants power for collection.

If you fail to pay your electricity bill a prepayment meter is fitted that forces you to pay the debt back. You can't do that with council tax and if we didn't get it all in by 1st March the new year's bill rolls round and we start again with a higher council tax bill. If people were struggling before then paying two lots is not going to be easy.

I understand why people get upset with bailiffs, but until you have seen CAB financial breakdown statements where people genuinely list full sky package, drinking and smoking as outgoings you realise that some people do not prioritise it.

If you cannot pay the full amount due for that month on your council tax for God's sake ring them and pay something, anything you can toward it, that way as a person taking the call I can see that you are trying and we can hold reminders for a bit etc but please call.

I also used to deal with all the bankruptcies cases. You are not alone, several people a week if not daily are made bankrupt. All we do is close that account down, start a new one. We are not judging people, we are just trying to do our job of collecting money in. We aren't exempt from paying it as employees

The liability order is a back up plan if you make a payment arrangement and don't stick to it. It is an insurance policy, we have the right to ask for your employment details and take it directly from your salary if you fail to pay. It is a set % amount and IMO too fucking high and councils can run 2 (or used to it is a very long time since I did this job) attachments at a time.

I thought the company or council or whatever just sold the debt to the enforcement company?

Councils can't sell the debt, they apply to magistrates court (I think it's magistrates) for a liability order against the person who owes, that means legally, the debt is owed and that the council can use enforcement to collect. Enforcement incudes appointing bailiffs, getting an attachment of earnings or benefits order, or application for committal to prison. Most councils go straight to bailiffs - even though an aoe would be far easier, cost less and be more reliable. At all times the debt is still the responsibility of the council, the bailiffs act on their behalf.

I remember saying this on another thread a while ago, but nobody should be pushed to the brink because of owing money. Regardless of whether it's their fault or not. I can't remember what it's called but I watched a BBC true story on a young man who ended up committing suicide after being harassed by bailiffs. He couldn't see any way out. It's all very well saying "oh well bailiffs are a last resort, you would have had chances to pay before that". Yes that's true but what if you were so scared you didn't face up to it, or you set up a payment plan but couldn't make the payments? Then the bailiffs charge more than you can give, or want it "now" and won't agree to a payment plan? It's not that simple.

If you are on v low income you get council tax credit. Still possible to be pretty broke on low wage. They set the level too low. I don't mind paying for council services but they waste loads of money on private landlords and services.

There a few step in place b4 it gets to the bailifft stage . People just tend to think if they ignore it it will go away that's why it ends up with bailiffs .

If the bailiffs are involved then the case has already gone to court where the debtor could have pleaded the case to clear the debt in instalments. Bailiffs really are a last resort for the council.

No, it’s not despicable. It needs to be paid. By the time the bailiffs come the person has buried their head in the sand for far too long and not sorted out a reasonable payment plan.

This reminds me of the funny story from when my husband first moved to this country and didn't realise council tax was a thing and thought it was a scam, so refused to pay it and got taken to court. I'm sure it wasn't funny for him then. Bloody hilarious to me many years on😂.

I think the bailiffs are somewhat necessary. Maybe what we should be criticising is unaffordable rents, council tax (ours is 239 per month for a 2 bed, tiny flat!) and escalating train fares. It's not just the south, I was in Yorkshire recently and a 20 min bus ride cost me £4.20! That's more than I pay in London. The problem is, because living costs are so high in this country, people struggle to save, which means when something big does happen that is costly to repair, that can easily result in bailiffs.

if someone can’t pay it, intimidating them is awful

If they can't perhaps - but what if they won't?

There are a lot of steps before it gets to bailiffs, with help and advice available, and though folk are quick to cry "waaahh - unfair" we don't always know what's gone on behind the scenes before it's got to this point

No doubt a few needy cases fall through the net, but if no enforcement existed there'd soon be little council tax collected at all

People just tend to think if they ignore it it will go away

They ignore it because they are scared and don't have the money to pay. I've been there so I know how it feels. It may not seem "logical" to other people but if you ignore the letters you can sometimes at least still sleep at night. If you know you can't change the situation then how does opening the letters help? It just makes you feel more scared. And if you're all alone and have no one to talk about it, and to support you emotionally, then it is sometimes just too much to deal with.

I used to work with vulnerable people and I remember a woman I supported used to bring her post to me and ask me to open it and read it first. Most times it was actually nothing bad, but she had got to the stage where she was too scared to open anything thinking it was yet another demand for money she didn't have. Unless you have been there you can't imagine what that's like.

These people have had ample opportunity to come to an arrangement to pay the outstanding bill, but they haven't so yes bailiffs should go in and collect any money they can.

If everyone paid their council tax then perhaps council wouldn't be cutting services left right and centre. And everyone's council tax may not be as high as it is.

I know someone who owes thousand on council tax going back at least 8 years, but it's never stopped her prioritising her smoking, buying scratch cards and having the latest phone.

Unfortunately because none of the various companies she owed money took action sooner she now lost everything. She been evicted and with her overall debt running into the 10's of thousands that she has no way of paying. Her and her children are in temporary accommodation and probably will be for years to come.

I wonder if all the people on here saying bailiffs are the last resort and there's so many steps where you can arrange payment plans have actually dealt with the situation?
I have and before I did, I thought that too.
You miss one CT payment, and tell the council why, and request time to pay. You get 7 days. You don't have it in 7 days.
The council demand the full amount for the year as missing that payment loses your right to pay in installments. Even if you pay the missing installment, the rest is now outstanding in full.
If you don't pay the full amount it then it goes to the bailiffs.
You can't pay the full amount, the council refuse anything less and a payment plan.
It goes to the bailiffs.
The bailiffs demand sums you don't have.
The council refuse to deal.
The bailiffs refuse reasonable payment plans. Threaten all sorts.
You agree to a plan you know you can't meet and end up defaulting, as you knew you would.
Or you default on something else to meet it.
And round it goes.

And you know what, the liability order gives the council the right to take it from benefits or wages with an aoe order. But that's set to a % of what's earned by law. With a small fee for admin by an employer and it's dealt with.
I can't see the sense in going for bailiffs first - the more you earn with an aoe the more you pay, so people who can afford to pay and just don't will pay more than those who are on fluctuating income or low income and cannot agree to a payment plan because they don't know next month if they can meet the payment. It's a far more stable and reliable way than bailiffs.

HBStowe you're getting different issues muddled up.

@HBStowe isn't ... the new minimum wage for a 35hr week gives a net wage increase of approx £40 a month but for that you'd lose around the same in tax credits so at this point you're breaking even.

My rent & council tax increase each month from April is £25, my basic auto enrolment pension will increase by around £5 a month so we're now at a deficit of £30 with nothing to cover any further increases in household bills such as utilities, food, fuel.

The low wages & ever decreasing top up benefits which previously helped alleviate them are a direct cause of the dismal financial situation people are now finding themselves in.

Wages are too low in this country.

Imo bailiffs and debt collectors are class traitors doing the dirty work of the rich and powerful.

Whilst there's better ways to deal with people with debts ultimately there needs to be some sanctions because otherwise people will abuse credit

I wonder if all the people on here saying bailiffs are the last resort and there's so many steps where you can arrange payment plans have actually dealt with the situation?

Yes, I have. I had 24 hours to get £800 odd pounds together. It was my own fault. I ignored the letters. Couldn't ignore two big fellas at the door knocking on when I was trying to go to work. I take absolute responsibility for ignoring the letters, not paying attention and not checking properly. I should have dealt with it sooner.

Is the problem council tax which everyone must pay.
Or unscrupulous bailiffs who don't follow the rules.
What method would you propose for people who say they can't pay but are clearly taking the mickey?

Brilliantidiot you’ve missed out the court step. Bailiffs aren’t involved until the courts have been involved and the court can tell the council it has to accept an instalment plan if the judge believes this will be adhered to. It is up to the debtor to prove to he court what they can afford. Of course if the debtor chooses to ignore the court summons then, yes, bailiffs can and will be set for the full amount plus fees.

@MichaelMorrissMam

And I didn't ignore it, and still ended up in the same situation. It's crazy.
I remember at the same time someone I worked with was caught stealing from vulnerable people - there was evidence but no further action was taken.
I think that showed me what we hold dear in this country and that the lowest and most vulnerable in society are held in such contempt by those 'above'.

Oh and many years ago I was in a position where I did not have the money to pay my council tax (well it was actually poll tax at the time). As soon as I knew I wouldn’t have the funds I contacted the council and told them my situation; I was given two months where I wouldn’t pay in anticipation of work coming in, which it did. The missed two months were then added to the rest of the year and respite evenly for the six months or so I had left in the tax year. They were helpful and understanding because I went to them BEFORE I got into arrears.

@BuggerOffAndGoodDayToYou

The liability order is granted in your absence of you don't attend. As I'd never faced this before I believed the council when they said that they wouldn't accept a payment plan, and that they'd get a liability order for the full amount, which would go to the bailiffs. I was under the impression from the council the only reason I could contest the liability order was to say I didn't owe it at all - which I did owe - so genuinely thought there was no point going to court because I did owe it.
Obviously I know better now, and if I find myself in that situation again that's what I'll do. My point is though that people assume you've buried your head in the sand, it's not always the case. I didn't and still ended up with the bailiffs.

I remember at the same time someone I worked with was caught stealing from vulnerable people - there was evidence but no further action was taken.

That us absolutely atrocious, they should have been prosecuted.

I think that showed me what we hold dear in this country and that the lowest and most vulnerable in society are held in such contempt by those 'above'.

It depends I think. Money isn't what I personally hold dear. But I am now in a position to have enough, so recognise that I am fortunate. Its not always been that way.

Councils are. Huge business, they expect to be paid their tax, so when dealing with non payment, they'll go for the quickest and easiest route to get their money. Council tax is non negotiable. Enforcement agents have a duty of care, they are in a position of power. Some, clearly, are heavy handed and lie. Not all of them are unfair bullies. The ones I dealt with weren't.

@BuggerOffAndGoodDayToYou

And actually I did, I was in hospital and in no fit state to contact anyone, but I did ring before the date it was due to say I'd earned nothing, and why and was given an additional 7 days, in which time I failed to magic money out of thin air. And then it escalated to the bailiffs. I didn't ignore it, I did tell them. Made zero difference.