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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To think that if stat mat pay is good enough for women it's good enough for men?

78 replies

NewAccount270219 · 09/04/2019 08:58

I just read this press release from the TUC:

www.tuc.org.uk/news/tuc-calls-overhaul-shared-parental-leave

It's a subject close to my heart because DH and I are in the 1% who have done SPL, it's been brilliant for us and I would like to see higher uptake. But this bit really annoyed me:

The TUC believes take-up is low because the scheme is so low-paid (£145.18 per week) making it unaffordable for most fathers.

Statutory paternity pay and shared parental pay should be increased to at least minimum wage levels.

SPL is paid at the same rate as statutory maternity pay! If I was on leave right now I'd be being paid exactly what DH is - but it's too low for him but good enough for me? And suggesting that both paternity pay and SPL are raised to minimum wage but NOT maternity pay?

Look, I get that in many families (not ours, but many) the man is the higher earner and that's a barrier to him taking leave. But basically this seems to suggest that women's wages are optional - 'pin money' - and so it's fine to throw them some token mat pay, but men need real money. And I find that sexist and offensive.

OP posts:
Original poster
NewAccount270219 · 09/04/2019 09:02

Sorry, link didn't come out clicky:

www.tuc.org.uk/news/tuc-calls-overhaul-shared-parental-leave

OP posts:
BeanBag7 · 09/04/2019 09:05

I agree with you! Yes statutory paternity and shared parental pay should be increased to minimum wage level.... and so should statutory maternity pay!

powershowerforanhour · 09/04/2019 09:07

YANBU.
I'm not surprised...correct me if I'm wrong but I don't think the TUC has shining history with regard to women's rights.

TinyTear · 09/04/2019 09:08

I totally agree. My work are very flexible but only give SMP.
I had to save and scrimp to last the 8 and then 10 months maternity leave i took...

it's absolutely ridiculous that SMP isn't the same as minumum wage!

MRex · 09/04/2019 09:09

YANBU.

Mind you, being self employed I'm still waiting for HMRC to pay any of the SMP to my company, so the amount isn't always the only issue. My accountant thinks it'll come in a few weeks. DS is already 1. Good job we have savings eh!

kaytee87 · 09/04/2019 09:12

I think it's probably because men still earn more so the family can't afford for the man to be on stat pay.
Of course it should be the same pay for both though - higher.

Readysteadygoat · 09/04/2019 09:12

YANBU

Sindragosan · 09/04/2019 09:13

Sexist definitely. If they were campaigning for maternity pay and paternity pay to be increased I'd take them a bit more seriously.

Unfortunately what they're saying is true. DH is the higher earner so while we could cope with me on maternity pay, we couldn't afford him to take the last few months and me go back to work. The couples I know who have split leave have the husband as the lower earner so its made financial sense.

IceCreamAndCandyfloss · 09/04/2019 09:15

Agree it should be paid the same as SMP. We should be going for equality not widening the gap even further.

I disagree it should be paid an NMW, its very generous as it is for something that's a choice. If people can't survive on maternity benefits then they need to save or wait until they are in a better finaincal position.

ParisWilton · 09/04/2019 09:16

The issue is that men are more likely to be the higher earner so if the father went on SPL the family as a whole would suffer and it is unaffordable. The TUC aren't saying men deserve more money than women fgs.

AnotherEmma · 09/04/2019 09:22

YANBU at all

However, some companies offer enhanced maternity pay for women, and they haven't all extended the same benefits to men.

So I agree that any increases should be equal; if the government increases shared parental pay, they should increase SMP, and employers who offer enhanced pay should offer it to men as well as women.

None of it will happen, though!

Original poster
NewAccount270219 · 09/04/2019 09:22

The issue is that men are more likely to be the higher earner so if the father went on SPL the family as a whole would suffer and it is unaffordable. The TUC aren't saying men deserve more money than women fgs.

They are though, because there's no suggestion that maternity pay should be paid at a higher rate when the woman is the main earner. High stat pay for the breadwinner would be a separate (and very controversial) thing, but that's not the same as just saying men should get more money for being on SPL than women do for being on mat leave. That is the actual definition of paying men more for the same work, just for being men.

OP posts:
Original poster
NewAccount270219 · 09/04/2019 09:25

I'm not surprised...correct me if I'm wrong but I don't think the TUC has shining history with regard to women's rights.

Agreed. As a leftwing woman it can be quite hard to reconcile trade unions (which I believe are a good thing in principle) with the extent to which they defend men's rights over women's. My own union rep (UCU) basically acted like I had two heads when I asked how a strike would affect maternity pay, then said it was a 'niche issue' for which I'd have to contact the central union - worryingly, he didn't even seem to know how maternity pay works. Because it's a woman thing, and that's niche, apparently.

OP posts:
AnotherEmma · 09/04/2019 09:26

Not sure whether to eye roll or angry face that one!

Original poster
NewAccount270219 · 09/04/2019 09:33

Mind you, being self employed I'm still waiting for HMRC to pay any of the SMP to my company, so the amount isn't always the only issue

This is really shit, and pretty unforgivable - they have to pay you the money either way, so paying it late makes your life hard and gains them nothing. Totally agree that more should be done for self-employed people in this regard - it's a huge percentage of working people now but it's still treated as if it's very unusual, weird and complicated.

OP posts:
TheChiefBMS · 09/04/2019 09:35

The union movements in the UK have a long history of reasoning that men should be paid more than women as they are/should be bread winners. I'm no lover of the word 'patriarchy', but this is a great example of it asserting itself.

Gentlemanwiththistledownhair · 09/04/2019 09:37

I despair. How are we ever going to get to the point where more women are able to progress to senior roles when this bullshit persists?!

CallipygianFancier · 09/04/2019 09:39

Reading the link you posted, they're saying quite a bit more than just "men should get more money for shared parental leave".

TowandaForever · 09/04/2019 09:39

What about other benefits like carers allowance? That's not paid at anything near minimum wage level!

It's about £70 a week.

TowandaForever · 09/04/2019 09:40

£66.15 a week

pastabest · 09/04/2019 09:40

Yes the reason men aren't volunteering in droves to take a year off work to sit on their bums drinking tea and eating cake, play with the baby whilst watching Loose Women and occasionally flicking a duster around and destroying their future earning potential in the process is absolutely because they don't get paid enough for paternity leave Grin Hmm

It's totally not because men feel more able than women to opt out of the whole messy business of babyrearing and domestic drudgery.

The poor men

ItsAllGone19 · 09/04/2019 09:42

YANBU...but it might turn the tables on one aspect of discrimination if it goes through because employers will no longer rest the burden of "What if a child comes along?" on a female employees shoulders.

With men more likely to take paternity/shared parental leave women will no longer be penalised for being of a certain age and potentially childbearing. Especially when you consider that men have a far longer fertile life in general.

However, in reality TUC have just declared again that men are more valuable and important than women.

For the record, my earnings outstrip my husband's by £20k pa. Maternity leave was a massive financial hit for us, it is a proper kick in the teeth to suggest I'm worth less financially for statutory pay when I pay more taxes and earn more money.

Newmumma83 · 09/04/2019 09:44

I think it would be great if both parents could have more time at the start together ... as an ideal! Just found out o2 allow fathers 14 weeks fully paid paternity leave ( came into effect after our baby was born) but companies able to do that help.

But if men can get more absolutely it should work both ways x

TheGoogleMum · 09/04/2019 09:48

I get more than smp for a while (nhs maternity pay) but it would be statutory only for DH if we shared. Males no difference after 6 months but before then no point sharing.

BollocksToBrexit · 09/04/2019 09:50

Statutory maternity pay isn't good enough for anyone. When DD was born I received an absolute pittance. There's no way DH could have taken time off at that rate. DS was born overseas where parental leave is paid at 80% of salary for the entire time off. DH's employer pays enhanced parental leave so he got 100% of his salary for the 6 months he took off.