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AIBU?

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to wonder why the media is focusing solely on gay sex in the context of sharia law in Brunei

14 replies

PalatineUvula · 07/04/2019 20:59

Brunei passed a sharia code in 2013. This was commenced in two stages, but with the 'death by stoning' bits coming in last week.

This is what the code says

www.agc.gov.bn/AGC%20Images/LAWS/Gazette_PDF/2013/EN/s069.pdf

"A man and a woman are said to commit zina if they willfully had sexual intercourse without being validly married to each other"

"Any Muslim who commits zina and it is proved either by ikrar of the
accused, or by syahadah of at least four syahid according to Hukum Syara' after the Court is satisfied having regard to the requirements of tazkiyah al syuhud, is guilty of an offence and shall be liable on conviction to hadd punishment as follows-
(a} if he is muhshan [married], stoning to death witnessed by a group of Muslims;
or
(b) if he is ghairu muhshan [not married], whipping with 100 strokes witnessed by a group of Muslims and imprisonment for a term of one year.

[2) Any Muslim who commits zina and it is proved by evidence other than that provided under subsection (1) is guilty of an offence and shall be liable on conviction
(a} if he is muhshan, whipping with not exceeding 30 strokes and
imprisonment for a term not exceeding 7 years; or
(b) if he is ghairu muhshan, whipping with not exceeding 15 strokes and imprisonment for a term not exceeding 3 years.

"82. (1) Any person who commits liwat is guilty of an offence and shall be liable on conviction to the same punishment as provided for the offence of zina.
(2) For the purposes of this Order, "liwat" means sexual intercourse
between a man and another man or between a man and a woman other than his wife, done against the order of nature that is through the anus.

  1. Liwat shall be proved in the same manner as provided for the offence of zina. "

"93. A husband who accuses his wife of commiting zina and he or his wife refuses to perform li'an after being ordered by the Court to undergo li'an, the husband or the wife shall be imprisoned until -
{a} the husband has agreed to perform li'an or be punished with hadd
punishment for committing qazaf; or
{b) the wife has agreed to perform li'an or accepted the husband's
accusation of zina and if the wife accepted the husband's accusation, she is guilty of the offence of zina and shall be liable on conviction to hadd punishment for committing zina.
(2) For the purposes of this section and section 95, "li'an" means an
accusation of zina on oath in accordance with Syara Law made by a husband against his wife whilst the wife on oath in accordance with Syara Law rejects such accusation and the accusation and rejection are made before the Court. "

I had not heard of li'an but it's quite dramatic:

www.oxfordislamicstudies.com/article/opr/t125/e1345

"A Quranic institution governing cases in which a husband accuses his wife of adultery without supplying witnesses. Quran 24:6–9 explicitly instructs the husband to swear four times that his accusation is true, followed by a fifth oath in which he invokes the wrath of God upon himself if he is lying. The wife may then neutralize this claim by responding with four oaths of her own, the fifth of which calls upon her the wrath of God if her husband is telling the truth. If she refuses to take the oath, she is presumed guilty and subject to the punishment for adultery. If she takes the oath, she is declared innocent and permanently divorced from her husband. Her husband, in turn, forfeits any paternity claims over children born subsequent to their sworn oaths."

Anyway, as far as I can see, unmarried men who have sex with men incur the same punishment as unmarried men who have sex with women - i.e. whipping and imprisonment. While married men who have sex with men incur the same punishment as married men who have sex with women other than their wives.

Wives because of course men can marry multiple wives.

Anyway the BBC is for example reporting

"The South-East Asian nation introduced strict Islamic laws this week that make gay sex punishable by stoning to death."

While this is true, it's not 'gay sex' generally but specifically 'anal sex', and in fact it's not only 'anal sex', the actual truth is

'The South-East Asian nation introduced strict Islamic laws this week that make adulterous sex punishable by stoning to death'.

It's true that it will never be legal for two men to have anal sex in Brunei, because men cannot marry there, but the penalty for anal sex is no different from that of vaginal sex.

And it strikes me that the ability for men (only) to take more wives, and the prescriptions about li'an, mean that this law will affect far more women than men, because if a man accuses his wife of adultery then she must swear she didn't do it, or be put to death.

AIBU to think this reporting is wrong and ignores the many women who will be affected by this law?

OP posts:
PalatineUvula · 07/04/2019 21:00

Sorry the link to the BBC article

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-47840686

OP posts:
PalatineUvula · 07/04/2019 21:03

Some more definitions for those confused:

ikrar - confession
syahid - witness
syahadah - their testimony
Hukum Syara - Sharia law
tazkiyah al syuhud - process of determining whether a syahid is credible or not

OP posts:
PalatineUvula · 07/04/2019 21:06

hadd punishment - aka hudud, this means the punishments that are believed to be a fixed tariff from God. Distinguished from tazir (discretionary), set by the judge

qazaf - an accusation of zina without four syahid

OP posts:
C0untDucku1a · 07/04/2019 21:09

I think it is cute you're surpised the bbc dont give a crap about women...

Goodnamesalltaken · 07/04/2019 21:10

What about the fact that a child as young as nine can lose a limb for theft?

PalatineUvula · 08/04/2019 11:30

I think it's actually fifteen, from reading the law, but yes that's not much better.

OP posts:
AngeloMysterioso · 08/04/2019 12:06

Far fewer people get outraged on behalf of women than they do about the LGBT community

EnthusiasmIsDisturbed · 08/04/2019 12:08

Because we women are not as important as men (and we are talking about men having sex)

Didn’t you know that op

formerbabe · 08/04/2019 12:09

Because we're sadly used to hearing about the violation of women/children's rights.

Once it affects men (regardless of sexuality) then we get really angry.

Aeroflotgirl · 08/04/2019 12:28

I totally agree, women are not important. Women have been suffered under Islamic law for centuries, but when it starts affecting men, there is an uproar. We need a Facebook post about organisations that support the stoning of women in the UAE, so that we can share the hell out of it, and be enraged. But no, women don't matter.

Hobbesmanc · 09/04/2019 16:03

It's not the case that women don't matter. In reality it's massively unlikely that any of the Sharia law that has been codified in law will ever be enacted. Its widely seen as the ruling family shoring up their Islamic credentials to neautralise any hard fundamental movements in the area.

However what LGB groups in the region fear. is that this will justify a crackdown on the nascent developing of a tiny gay voice in Brunei and will lead to attacks and discrimination to men perceived as being gay.

PalatineUvula · 09/04/2019 23:37

" In reality it's massively unlikely that any of the Sharia law that has been codified in law will ever be enacted."

Not sure I follow that argument.

Sharia is already in effect in numerous areas in the region.

To say that none of it will be enacted is plainly ludicrous.

"However what LGB groups in the region fear. is that this will justify a crackdown on the nascent developing of a tiny gay voice in Brunei and will lead to attacks and discrimination to men perceived as being gay."

Like these women caned for lesbian acts in neighbouring Malaysia?

www.rojakdaily.com/skop/article/5751/what-did-the-terengganu-public-caning-trigger-across-malaysia

Or these, er, women caned for adultery?

www.aljazeera.com/news/asia-pacific/2010/02/201021844619366612.html

Or this woman caned for prostitution?

www.astroawani.com/berita-malaysia/melacurkan-diri-ibu-tunggal-berdepan-hukuman-sebat-syariah-186381

Or this woman charged for khalwat? (being alone with a man)

www.astroawani.com/berita-malaysia/guru-tabika-khalwat-dengan-adik-ipar-sendiri-didenda-187885

Brunei is a Malay kingdom and would have been part of Malaysia if not for the copious amounts of oil they have.

Two provinces of Malaysia that have Sharia are Terengganu and Kelantan. Culturally they aren't too far from Brunei.

From what I can see liwat IS on the books in those provinces but they don't seem to be prosecuting gay men for gay sex, but for things that are also offenses in the UK.

www.hmetro.com.my/mutakhir/2019/04/440923/tak-mengaku-salah-rogol-liwat-adik-ipar - anal rape of a 15 year old boy

www.bharian.com.my/berita/kes/2018/11/502647/penjara-24-tahun-15-sebatan-kerana-rogol-liwat-anak - anal rape with a sword

www.bharian.com.my/berita/kes/2018/06/432918/rogol-liwat-anak-bapa-dipenjara-40-tahun-24-sebatan - anal rape of own daughter

Clearly the sharia they have implemented in Brunei is more extreme than in Malaysia, but if we look at how it is actually practised already in Malaysia, the reality is women are being whipped for things that would be legal in the UK, whereas gay men are not being whipped for things that would be legal in the UK.

What I think this tells you is that the world makes more of a fuss about men's rights than about women's....

But do correct me if I've missed the point....

OP posts:
Penguincake · 09/04/2019 23:43

I was also saddened by the reporting. Why have no celebs started a mass boycott of Saudi hotels in the last few decades over their treatment of women? The answer is that the vast majority do not give a shit about women’s rights.

lozster · 09/04/2019 23:45

Thanks for the information Palatine. Learnt some unpalatable things there. Stoning is barbaric period but you are correct; women’s issues just don’t attract the same attention.

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