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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

AIBU or is DH?

47 replies

unicorniann · 06/04/2019 12:57

Our almost 3 year old has been screaming a lot lately. Basically anytime she doesn't get her own way or it can be for silly reasons like she doesn't like the way I've put her cheese on her sandwich etc. It's been absolutely constant for the past few weeks. To begin with, I'd chat to her, cuddle her and try to calm her down but that hasn't had any effect. I actually think she is doing it for a reaction. The new approach we're trying is to take her away from the situation, sit her down and saying "we stay calm in this house" and letting her calm down before then talking to her. I explained last night to DH that I think not talking to her when she is screaming hysterically might be best for now. He agreed.

Then, DD started having an absolutely epic melt down at lunch, it was the worst one yet. Hysterically screaming because she didn't like where I put her apple on her plate. I tried to talk her down but the screaming got worse & worse. I sat her down to calm down but she was screaming more & more, louder & louder for a reaction. I held my nerve and just calmly waited. DH was nearer DD at the time and she turned to him saying "hand hand" she had a runny nose and had wiped it on her hand. Anyway, DH who hadn't been involved in the whole lunch drama went over to wipe her hand and started asking her what was on her hand. I said to him calmly "remember, don't talk to her". Then he sharply shouted my name and looked at me, clearly angry with me & upset.

I said nothing more but once DD had calmed down and was back eating lunch, I asked DH to please not speak to me like that again. He started getting really upset saying "I'm not the boss of him" and all this other stuff. I walked away but later returned and told him that I'd never ever try to be the boss of him and that it's just because I'd dealt with the whole melt down and had held my ground with her and I really didn't want him to come in and start communicating with her. DH was shaking his head and sort of tensing his lips together the whole time I spoke. I've just left it. I'd hate to think someone thinks I'm bossy in that way but I also should point out I do 95% of the parenting because of DH working away for long spells.

I'm just upset that I can't have a conversation with him without him shaking his head and being angry with me.

Is this all my fault? Was it wrong of me to ask him not to talk to her? I feel so confused by this whole thing.

OP posts:
TowelNumber42 · 06/04/2019 13:58

You did the right thing

You are too upset about your DH having a huff. DH was shaking his head and sort of tensing his lips together the whole time I spoke. How very fucking rude of him. He didn't discuss like an adult, he made disappointed Daddy face at you. That would be an escalation in our house.

Don't give in to child tantrums. Don't give in to man tantrums. You agreed an approach, he made a mistake in this situation, you reminded him of your agreed approach, he had a ridiculous huff.

Mentally roll your eyes a lot. Then roll them some more. Then continue with your anti-tantrum methods. Don't reward DH's silly huff with attention, or escalate so long after the mistake, just ignore it now like nothing happened.

CheshireChat · 06/04/2019 14:00

As a side note, it sounds like your relationship with your DH is rather tense which your DD might be picking up on a bit and playing up.

Could you talk to him again and explain you can't give in straight away? Maybe he could read a book/ article on parenting at this stage?

ILoveMaxiBondi · 06/04/2019 14:01

There's no difference between removing the child and removing the plate.

There absolutely is. The behaviour is inappropriate for someone who is in the company of others. It is an inappropriate way to interact with people. So you remove her from the audience so that she is getting zero attention for it, not even the pleasure of knowing the people can hear you. She can come back when she is ready to interact appropriately.

By removing the food you are saying that the food is dependant on her behaviour. That she only gets to eat when she is good. Which is wrong. We don’t starve people for bad behaviour.

Youre establishing psychological connections between food and behaviour and if you continue to reinforce them are on the path for some serious food refusal in the next couple of years that may or may not develop into an eating disorder.

fecketyfeck21 · 06/04/2019 14:04

a lot of young children are just as likely to tip the plate up if they are having a tantrum, removing it until they calm down seems reasonable.

ILoveMaxiBondi · 06/04/2019 14:08

Put it in the middle of the table out of reach, sure. But taking it away as a way to incentivise good behaviour isn’t ok.

unicorniann · 06/04/2019 14:25

By removing the food you are saying that the food is dependant on her behaviour. That she only gets to eat when she is good.

By that logic, removing DD from the dinner table, you are still saying that the food is dependent on her behaviour and that she only gets to eat when she is good.

I personally don't see it that way at all anyway.

For me, we all sit and eat together in a calm manner and she will be given her food when she is calm enough to eat it. I think you're being a bit dramatic about this and I say that as someone who previously suffered from eating disorders and takes extra care to promote and encourage a healthy relationship with food for my children.

OP posts:
MitziK · 06/04/2019 14:29

If she was tantruming over something 'wrong' on the plate, it makes perfect sense to remove the offending item briefly. Partly because it's then not obviously in front of her, reminding her of its 'wrongness', partly because she's no longer interested in it because the emotions have taken over, so will probably have forgotten it was 'wrong' when it comes back (particularly in this case because she'd moved on to focusing upon the snot on her hand being the 'wrong' thing) - and partly because if it's left within range during a tantrum, the entire plate will end up being hurled onto the floor, along with cups of water, cutlery, yoghurts and anything else within reach and then the tantrum continues because she doesn't have the food/drink anymore and has to wait for more when she's hungry NOW.

The best way in my experience to deal with uncontrollable emotions (at any age, tbh), is to not add any more fuel to the fire. Staying calm, staying softly spoken, removing anything that could be damaged, injured or hurled/smashed from the immediate area and not interrupting somebody already dealing with it.

I differ from the OP in thinking that remaining completely silent is also escalating, because purely personally, if I'm upset, the last thing I need is to feel I'm being given the silent treatment and my tendency is to do more to get some sort of reaction, at it at least means the person I'm upset with actually notices or cares that I'm unhappy, so when she started wailing 'hand, hand', I would have said gently 'do you want me to wipe your hand?' and done it myself with soft movements. I wouldn't have asked about what it was (it's bloody obvious it's snot), but asked 'is that better now?' [sniffly nods] 'are you OK now?' [sniffly nods] 'Hug or dinner first?' [Hug] 'There you go' [Hug] 'Dinner now? Here you are [returns plate, not mentioning the probably long forgotten piece of apple]. I wouldn't send a child away or force them to sit anywhere during a tantrum, as adding a feeling of rejection or of being trapped could make it worse.

When it comes down to it, as the adult who isn't having the tantrum, you are in power because you have control over your reactions. It's not being all Alpha Dog to move things out of the way. And snapping loudly as parents doesn't really help a toddler regain control of their emotions.

Any living thing, if it feels vulnerable, out of control or potentially threatened, is working on instinct, not reason. An injured cat will take a chunk out of your hand if you try and grab at it or there are other people running around and shouting at one another. An injured, scared, humiliated and distraught teenager who has picked up a knife or other weapon will be more likely to start waving it about wildly if there is shouting, raised voices, lots of people running about or somebody tries to force them to sit down or go somewhere else.

To deal with any of these things, you look for potential risks - the knife, you being too close to it, somebody between you and the exit, being bitten, a plate of food getting chucked across the dining room - calmly and quietly. Then you stay calm and ensure that the environment isn't changing rapidly around the panicking/tantruming/injured subject, so they don't overreact to it. You don't confuse or disorientate them with distractions. And you let the energy dissipate.

ILoveMaxiBondi · 06/04/2019 14:30

By that logic, removing DD from the dinner table, you are still saying that the food is dependent on her behaviour and that she only gets to eat when she is good.

No you’re removing her from the company of others. The food doesn’t play a part in it at all. When you only remove the food as the only consequence for her screaming then you are making a direct connection between behaviour and food.

takes extra care to promote and encourage a healthy relationship with food for my children.

I think you might need to look at how you’re doing that again. What you did today is the opposite of what you’re aiming for.

I know you don’t want to see it that way though so i’ll leave it there.

user1480880826 · 06/04/2019 14:43

It sounds like your husband treats you like a child. Why is he shaking his head at you?!

Alsohuman · 06/04/2019 14:46

Only four posts before the misandry starts. Why does MN hate men so much?

FaithInfinity · 06/04/2019 14:59

I don’t think you’re being unreasonable to be upset by the way he spoke to you/treated you.

Have a look at 1..2..3..magic by Thomas Phelan. It gives you a consistent approach to these tantrums - get your H on board as well. You need to exude calm externally even if you don’t feel it inside! I think the quote is something like ‘Be the calm your child needs’.
It’s really helped us with DD (almost 6).

CheshireChat · 06/04/2019 16:34

Alsohuman meh, most other big forums seem to openly hate women so it's not like men have no options.

OP- is your issue the fact he doesn't normally do childcare then sabotages you? Could he take her out on his own for a bit?

Cherrysoup · 06/04/2019 16:42

Let him deal when he’s there if he doesn’t like your methods. He’s sabotaging you. He can deal with the tantrums.

SEsofty · 06/04/2019 16:51

How’s her understanding? You mention that she said ‘hand hand’ because she needed it wiped was that because she was screaming or is that how she’d normally talk?

If the later then her screaming may be frustration at not being able to articulate what she needs.

Eg my 2.5 year old would say ‘ I need a tissue to wipe my hand, they are on the side.’

M4J4 · 06/04/2019 17:34

He was enjoying being saviour (i.e. the one DD talked to), probably because he's never there. It's unacceptable that he shouted at you.

Leave him to deal with her tantrums next time so he gets a taste of it without your help.

M4J4 · 06/04/2019 17:35

Eg my 2.5 year old would say ‘ I need a tissue to wipe my hand, they are on the side.’

Really? Confused

SandyY2K · 06/04/2019 18:08

I tried to talk her down but the screaming got worse & worse

So despite what you said the previous day you talked to her to try and calm her down yourself.

She had mucus on her hand and he got her a tissue. I don't see any fault with this.

He asked her what was wrong...presumably also in an attempt to calm her down or distract her...then you told him (calmly) to remember what was said. I'd have been ticked off with you as well...

Tbh you should have left him to it. Was she still hysterically screaming at this point?

Cantthinkofausername1990 · 06/04/2019 18:25

From my experience and using the advice of a child psychologist, if the child is uncontrollable then taking the child out of the situation completely to let him calm down is what works. So I would have left the plate where it was but carried the child to another room until he was calmed down and then talked about it once he was calm.
Removing the plate is consequential discipline, saying that if she's going to scream at the table she won't get to have the food, but she didn't want the food anyway since it wasn't 'right' to her so that approach wouldn't be most useful in this case, the consequence wouldn't bother her.
Anyway it sounds like the problem here is actually that your husband doesn't agree with the approach you are taking,maybe he thought distraction would be the best approach so you need to have a calm chat about this to get on the same page.

Friedspamfritters · 06/04/2019 18:51

If she's actually having a tantrum i.e. she has lost control of her emotions she won't be thinking of eating the food anyway. When a child is in full tantrum they don't have access to the logical side of their brain so reasoning with them is useless. It's not a particular pleasant experience for the child either. Emotional regulation is something that has to be learned by having access to a calm loving parent who models good emotional stability.

To be clear this type of tantrum is distinct from the kind of manipulative tantrum kids have (usually not involving actual tears but lots of noise and stamping of feet) when they can control their emotions but they're hoping that the tantrum will get them what they want.

In the former the kid probably doesn't even have a clear idea of what they want and even if you gave them everything they said they wanted it wouldn't stop the tantrum.

oneforthepain · 06/04/2019 19:05

I also agree that there is a subtle but significant difference between the child having to leave the table and return themselves once calm, and their food being taken away and given back to them once calm.

The messages are different.

Plus, in the former the child has choices to make with controllable consequences, whereas the latter is very much about something being done to them outside of their control. Taking control away from any human being tends to cause anxiety and distress, which seems counterproductive in the circumstances. If you're trying to help her learn emotional regulation?

MoMandaS · 06/04/2019 19:24

alsohuman I don't hate men. I do hate the behaviour certain men display and the reasons behind it. That's not misandry, but dismissing it as such is rather misogynistic behaviour!

Alsohuman · 06/04/2019 21:52

Of course it is. 🙄

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