To wonder why people still bet on the grand national

[Springtime336]

-2 horses have already died at ladies day

• approx 200-250 horses die every year in the uk in horse racing

Really sad

You've not answered any of my questions OP. Would you rather not live at all rather than risk being killed on an accident? Do you feel a similar level of trauma for all the dead animals you see in Tesco?

Obviously it's very sad about the horse and I don't think anyone is dismissing it. At all. The racing industry also has its faults. But steps are always being made to improve safety and welfare. The ROR scheme has helped to improve the stigma of TBs within the horse community so ex-racers are not 'worthless' as they once were.

I take my hat off to you @TheInvestigator

You make such a good point. Someone with your view who actually gives a shit about their own part in cruelty / death of animals is completely within their rights to disagree with things such as the national. It's the hypocrisy of it all that really gets me!!

Imamearcat - I’ve answered both those questions a couple of times in the thread . The way I feel is
no I don’t agree with the overbreeding and I’m vegetarian but can get my head round animals for meat but not cruelty for entertainment

Not one of those links mentions live racehorses from the uk going to Europe to be slaughtered for meat. Of course horses are slaughtered in this country. What do you think happens to the thousands of unwanted normal horses?

www.google.co.uk/url?sa=i&source=web&cd=&ved=2ahUKEwikjrqCirzhAhUoDWMBHe0vCS8QzPwBegQIARAC&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.standard.co.uk%2Fsport%2Fhorse-racing%2Fup-for-review-dies-after-horrific-fall-at-the-grand-national-a4111151.html&psig=AOvVaw1yznvpyrxP8_YCl19-NMgF&ust=1554661092232349

Well, if Willie Mullins has most three horses so close together then something needs to be looked at

Same reason they still eat meat and don't care ..,race horses have a much nicer life than a lot of horses but I agree and hate it... everyone today on fb has bet on it... I just try to ignore the whole thing .

It's terribly sad that a horse died today at aintree (got that from here, didn't watch and not looked it up so apologies if that's not accurate) and if the fences weren't as challenging, or the horses not started quite so young then maybe it wouldn't have happened. Someone (a groom more than likely) is going home with an empty space on the box tonight.
But I also wonder how many other horses died today. Got kicked by a companion in the field, got colic because they haven't been fed properly, from laminitis because they're not monitored properly, because they have arthritis and the owner can't do what they want to any more and can't afford two, hit by a car because the driver thinks the owner is middle class, let out of the field by someone leaving a gate open, died during foaling because the owner won't pay for a vet......... The list goes on, and although there's plenty of sadness about these horses within the horse world, those deaths never make it into the realms of AIBU because they aren't in the public eye. They're just as sad and preventable.
Welfare standards need to improve the horse world as a whole, racing is one aspect of that.
It all gets a bit hysterical around Cheltenham and the Grand National, from both sides, because of the high profile nature of the race.

I'm not sure 'other horses have died today, because reasons' makes the point any less though.

I would feel sympathy if someone lost a horse through a field accident but I would be every bit as disgusted by a horse who does because of neglect as I am when they die racing. 'It happens elsewhere' isn't a justification.

Soulsista - asides from travelling communities not being called gypsies anymore because it's a racist term, you've tatted them all with a very negative brush, not dissimilar to describing all Mexicans as sleepy drunks etc.

Aye. Will you be so welcoming when they park up next to your property?

I have a good knowledge of travelling communities, lifestyles etc. I am currently applying for jobs and it is commonplace to see the term 'gypsy' on equal monitoring forms. I have seen this term on the Civil Service website today. Plus Royal Mail, British Airways and various higher education establishments in the last week.

Have you seen pigs thrashing on the hook after they have been insufficiently stunned. Have you seen how they thrash as their throat is cut and they're bled to death.

I actually have. However I cant say I see these things as being equal.

Why, because you like horses. Like I said at least the horse gets a good life and dies doing what it loves. The same can't be said about the pig.

Where are the grand national people when the fields of coloured cobs starving to death, or the livery yards full of chronically obese horses with lamenesses? It was a very distressing few minutes for Up For Review (and indeed any other horse that suffers fatal injuries racing)- but a vet was by his side in minutes and he was out of pain before most people even realised what happened, the thrashing was more than likely nerve twitches - and before this he was managed by a yard with more experience and understanding of how horses work than any normal owner could hope to have. Horses break their bones in the field and the owners take hours to get to them, and then the vets another half hour while the horse suffers

Why is nobody posting about how cruel this is?
https://www.rspca.org.uk/whatwedo/latest/details/-/articleName/20180424Numberofrescuehorsesreachesfouryearhigh

Or up in arms about this?
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/law-and-order/5517044/Farmer-James-Gray-jailed-for-grotesque-neglect-of-100-horses-ponies-and-donkeys.html

The real cruelty is going on behind closed doors, in a small field or stables for weeks and months and years on end. Horses that starve to death, or die because they have no water or are left with broken legs

Why, because you like horses.

No, because I see a difference in animals dying for entertainment and animals dying as part of the food chain.

Why is ok if we are going to eat things? I totally don't get that. We don't NEED to eat meat.

TBH I would probably be vegan before I could think horse racing should be banned.

Why is ok if we are going to eat things? I totally don't get that. We don't NEED to eat meat.

You don't have to get it, it's my opinion. It makes no difference whether you get it or not.

Well it does really. I'm very much one for letting folks get on with their own things but you people seem to want to stick your ore into things you don't understand.

Pets are mostly kept for entertainment.

There are those who care and those who will never care no matter what happens

And there are those that are knowledgable, and those that have no clue even when people try to educate them.

Whatever your views, people on both sides are writing considered and well educated posts and you are dismissing them, telling them that they are wrong. When they have clearly kept horses and have a great deal more knowledge than you do (as you are writing one sentence posts which are categorically untrue). Strange way to have a debate

Also, IMO the milking industry is much more cruel than the racing industry. So I'm unsure why you're trying to state your vegetarianism as a credential.

Ironically the fact that they have lowered the fences is what's probably increased fatalities. Lower fences means horses go faster which leads to worse falls. Bigger fences means horses jump properly and less chance of falls. Racing is never going to stop as it makes too much money, I think if they lowered the numbers racing and increased the jump height again that would improve it massively.

I'm very much one for letting folks get on with their own things but you people seem to want to stick your ore into things you don't understand.

Im sticking no ore into anything. I do however understand it. Just because you can't see my view point doesn't mean I don't understand, or even that you are correct in your view. It just means that we think differently. That's really normal.

@PBJtimedance I don't think that many horses have died in the National in recent years? Could be wrong. Also don't think the fences have actually got smaller, but definitely easier (less solid, more sloping).

I do think the amount of runners adds to the danger and the fact that it is so high profile there seems to be this mad dash to the first.. which from today obviously takes its victims.

@breadzeb I very much understand that people have a different view point. My personal viewpoint is that I find it hypocritical that people slag off horse racing because it is so 'cruel' while tucking into their steak, sipping their latte.

The horse that died today was the first since 2012 I believe. Awful to see, I want to cry watching it but at the same time have to watch it to try and 'lift' the horses over the fences, does that make any sense?

I've had 3 horses in my life and loved them all, to see them in peak condition streaming around Aintree today is as incredible as it is upsetting in equal measures. Tiger Roll is absolutely amazing I just gave to add. We wouldn't have him without racing. Reminds me so much of Red Rum all those years ago. Totally agree that the horse that died would have endured minimal suffering as assume there are vets at every fence. I've seen horses neglected and maltreated by awful cruel people in the past which was far more heartbreaking 💔

@imamearcat I've read that more have died in the modern era since the lowering of fences then they did in the 50's-70's, which says that somehow in trying to make it safer they have actually made it worse. I think lower fences is part of that they don't have to be as good jumpers anymore.

Totally agree @Trekkingbeyond. I really think each and every horse looked wonderful, particularly the winner he looked a picture. But so awful to see that poor horse at the first.

@PBJtimedance maybe it's caused a difference in judgement on what the trainers / owners enter into the race? But if it was the first fatality since 2012 then it's not looking much worse than any other race.