To think autistic people don’t understand the impact they have on people

[SpectrumBlues]

Is a pretty appalling statement to make?

(On the guest blog thread about the under-diagnosis of autism in women and girls)

As an autistic person, I find it hurtful and also deeply unfair. But am I completely naive - are we really just viewed as horrible sub-humans? Should I give up trying to argue that we are just people who process the world differently? Is the fact that I have had to suffer a whole load of bullying and pain by NT people because I’m different irrelevant?

I know this is a huge indulgent pity party but I just don’t get why hurtful comments are continually made about autistic people in this website and it is accepted.

I’ll now await deletion.

[NopeNi]

In fact, I'm really angry now - the sheer number of fucking "neurotypical" parents who are horrible and abusive, and you target a woman who sounds like she's done her best to not be??

[DeloresJaneUmbridge]

The guest post itself didn’t say that yabbers, it was a response to the guest post. The guest post was very good.

I won’t be buying the book just yet but will probably buy a copy at some point. Being a self identified autistic woman. Actual official diagnosis is ADHD with autistic traits.

[NopeNi]

No answers because you goddamn know them. At least own your vile opinions.

[BlooShampoo]

Sometimes if an autistic person is behaving in a way you dislike, it's not because they don't care about inconveniencing etc others. It's because something is causing them, for example, severe sensory discomfort. Imagine you were experiencing a bout of horrible pain and people expected you to acquiesce to their every demand and nicety when you were suffering and just wanted to cry and cry.

[FriarTuck]

It is incredibly hard growing up in a family like this when you are NT.
Does it occur to you for just a milli-second how difficult it is for autistic people just growing up at all?!!!!!!!

[BlooShampoo]

None of the NT "autism moms" who insist on using hurtful terminology and shouting down autistic people give me the impression that they give a shit about anyone but themselves.

[BlooShampoo]

Does it occur to you for just a milli-second how difficult it is for autistic people just growing up at all?!!!!!!!
This!
It's all very "when is white history month?" "When is the straight pride parade?"

[Ellenborough]

Nope I am talking about her because IT'S THE WHOLE POINT OF THE THREAD. Whether she's doing her best not to be horrible and abusive or not, I don't know her so I couldn't possibly comment. But I think it would be naive to assume or assert that autistic parents do their best to not be abusive at a rate any greater than the rest of us.

I can assure you I have plenty to say about non-autistic people being horrible and abusive. But this thread isn't for that. It's about whether or not autistic people UNDERSTAND the impact on others of how AUTISTIC people can be.

[LordWheresMyShoes]

I worry very much about the mental health of the two very high functioning adult female friends of mine who are on the spectrum. One feels on edge frequently as (in her words) she finds it hard to tell how somebody else has reacted to her, and if she reads that she has upset them she gets terribly upset herself as she finds it very hard to work out what she's done, and therefore how to avoid doing it again. She's never offended me, but I know of at least 3 times over the years she thought she had, and I suspect there are more she hasn't told me about. Social situations can really distress her and a few times she's confided in me what an alien and stressful place the whole world is to her. Mostly, she puts on a good front and you'd never know she wasn't NT or that anything was upsetting her.

The other is struggling very badly. She's been suicidal for the last 10 years and hasn't managed to hold down a job or self employment. She has no family and finds it hard to keep friend in real life (I and many others know her online). The state has let her down dreadfully with mental health support. She freely talks about the difficulties she has in this world being because of her autism. She has an impact on me that I don't think she realises - whether that is because of her autism or her poor mental health? It's probably a combination of the two and certainly also relates to where I am mentally as to how well I can handle it.

I teach autistic children. I definitely have to have a thick skin for that some days! They are sometimes different in their impact on me and their peers, and how well they can read that than NT children. There clearly aren't two clearly defined homogenous groups, they're still all individuals.

[quietcontentment]

I don't think being autistic has anything to do with it, I think everyone can fail to see the impact they have on others. It doesn't have to even be deliberate it can be careless or unintentional.

Autistic people with the right support are supported in this area to see the difference between their view of the world compared to everyone else, but this works both ways also. Everyone is different autistic or not and like I said before everyone can unintentionally leave quite an impact on others.

[NopeNi]

You PURPOSEFULLY chose to moan about a woman who's apparently posted on another thread about the methods she's clearly used to try and explain and mitigate autistic meltdowns. Probably to help her family as much as her.

You have said she's having a damaging effect with a little "oh so sad" comment, knowing that she could read this thread. That's fucking horrible.

Then when called out on it, you're too cowardly to give an opinion on what a different solution could be - because you know deep down the logical answer is "get rid of the autistic people", and that wouldn't fit with your narrative of being a nice sympathetic person.

[Cheeeeislifenow]

As a mother of a 14 year old with PDA I think the statement is correct. He does not understand or care why his five year old brother was crying yesterday in school, the reason being he saw another violent attack on his mother by his big brother. He tells us we are abusive, it could not be further from the truth and I have the emotional and physical scars to prove it. I currently hate being around him. Judge me for that all you want, walk a mile in my shoes.

[LordWheresMyShoes]

Just remembered I know two more women with autism, both of whom have disclosed mental health problems to me. Three, except she's not been to be assessed "to get an official autistic label" (her words). Shit. All the women I know who are or suspect they are on the spectrum have or have had mental health problems they they tell me are as a result of the way they struggle with the world in a way NTs don't seem to. I've just realised that every autistic woman I know struggles with mental health. Shit. I definitely need to go read the women and girls with autism thread.

[BlooShampoo]

I think a lot of why this harmful stereotype abounds is that a lot of people fail to remember that not all autistic people are children, and not all autistic people are male.
Every day NTs interact with kind and considerate autistic people. But because the NTs either don’t realise that we’re autistic (as we don’t conform to the stereotype), or they decide that we’re “mildly autistic” and therefore not autistic “enough”, their stereotypical views go unchallenged

[BlooShampoo]

Lord

[Ellenborough]

Then when called out on it, you're too cowardly to give an opinion on what a different solution could be - because you know deep down the logical answer is "get rid of the autistic people", and that wouldn't fit with your narrative of being a nice sympathetic person.

What bollocks. At no point would I think 'getting rid of autistic people' is the answer. That would be eugenics. So please stop accusing me of such a thing.

Perhaps you think getting rid of autistic people is the solution? After all, you mentioned it, not me.

I didn't offer a solution not because I'm a 'coward' but because there is no obvious solution to offer. You know there isn't. So how do you expect me to have one?

[BlooShampoo]

Ellenborough I hope you don’t drag up this one sad story every time the topic of autistic people and/or their parenthood arises. I badly want to be a mother some day and I don’t want fearmongering about how the selfish autistics traumatise their children etc
There are many, many more tales of children suffering as a result of the behaviour of NT parents.
Take virtually any other minority group and this wouldn’t even be a discussion.

[Ellenborough]

I've never 'dragged up' this story before and may not have a need to do so again. But if I do feel the need, that will be my choice to make, not yours.

But thanks for thought policing me in advance.

[FriarTuck]

She's never offended me, but I know of at least 3 times over the years she thought she had, and I suspect there are more she hasn't told me about. Social situations can really distress her and a few times she's confided in me what an alien and stressful place the whole world is to her. Mostly, she puts on a good front and you'd never know she wasn't NT or that anything was upsetting her.
If she's anything like me there will be hundreds of times where she thinks she's got it wrong and offended someone. And then she'll spend literally hours going over it in her head getting more and more wound up, beating herself up so that she has sod all self-confidence. Many of us are effectively aliens. And most people don't realise I'm autistic because it's all bottled up inside my head like a pressure cooker, only it won't blow on the outside (in public anyway), it'll be a meltdown in my head.

[BlooShampoo]

That’s really not what thought policing is though

[MudCity]

Agree with Ellenborough

There is a manager working within our organisation who has autism and makes life incredibly difficult for his team. They are now starting to leave after months of trying to be supportive. Does he have any clue at all that he / his autism is contributing to this? Absolutely not. No insight whatsoever.

[BlooShampoo]

MudCity there are plenty of NT dickhead managers around as well, surely?

[Ellenborough]

Take virtually any other minority group and this wouldn’t even be a discussion.

Depends on the 'minority group' in question. It would certainly be a discussion if the minority group were, say, people with MH problems or personality disorders. Because they are things that affect their ability to understand the effects their condition may have on those closest to them.

If it the minority group were say, racial, sexual orientation or physical disability or anything not pertaining to neural differences then their capacity to understand or relate to the experience of others is not necessarily in question.

[MudCity]

Cheeseislifenow for you.

[NopeNi]

You're talking bollocks Ellen.

Which is it?

Either:

1. autistic women shouldn't be allowed to have children since they might affect them
   
   Or
   
   
2. they should.
   
   Pick one.