To think autistic people don’t understand the impact they have on people

[SpectrumBlues]

Is a pretty appalling statement to make?

(On the guest blog thread about the under-diagnosis of autism in women and girls)

As an autistic person, I find it hurtful and also deeply unfair. But am I completely naive - are we really just viewed as horrible sub-humans? Should I give up trying to argue that we are just people who process the world differently? Is the fact that I have had to suffer a whole load of bullying and pain by NT people because I’m different irrelevant?

I know this is a huge indulgent pity party but I just don’t get why hurtful comments are continually made about autistic people in this website and it is accepted.

I’ll now await deletion.

[MudCity]

Blooshampoo Absolutely there are! It is more difficult to challenge it though when someone has autism. Everyone goes out of their way to be supportive but it is very difficult.

[Itwouldtakemuchmorethanthis]

Empathy is not the only ability needed to understand your impact on the world and those around us. Not all autistic people have the ability to see the cause and effect in that way. In fact that deficit is fairly central to the condition. A large proportion of people with ASD do not have the language or social skills to see the kind of nuanced interaction needed.
As a pp said, what would they do with this information?

[BlooShampoo]

NTs on this thread: autistic people cannot understand or care about others
Autistics on this thread: actually that’s really, really not the case
NTs: continue to ignore us

[Ellenborough]

It's not a black and white issue Nope, just like many things in this life, it's complicated and a matter of degree/shades of grey.

So no, I won't pick one. You don't get to tell me what to do. The tone of your last post is quite despotic.

[BlueSkiesLies]

It is incredibly hard growing up in a family like this when you are NT.

Does it occur to you for just a milli-second how difficult it is for autistic people just growing up at all?!!!!!!!

But that doesn’t give people with autism the monopoly on ‘having it hard’ and it doesn’t invalidate the statement that is can be unpleasant living with a family member who has autism at times.

[BlooShampoo]

When I was a kid I really, really cared about others. The problem was that I didn’t know how to CONVEY this in a way which would be welcome. For example, if someone was crying, I would feel for them greatly but I didn’t know whether my going to try and comfort them would make them feel better or worse. I can see why NTs might misread this sort of thing as an autistic child being uncaring etc but please listen to the experiences of autistic adults rather than writing us off as “the exception” or “too high-functioning”. We were those autistic kids once.

[Vulpine]

It's not about being a 'minority group'. We're talking about behaviours that can upset people.

[rainbowbash]

As an autistic person, I find it hurtful and also deeply unfair. But am I completely naive - are we really just viewed as horrible sub-humans?

I have a DD with severe Asd (severe LD) and I do think most people view DD as a much lesser human being and would consider the world a better place without her. That's at least my experience. Sad, I know but I have accepted it now somewhat. Humanity is dead!

[BlooShampoo]

Autistic person behaves in a way which upsets a NT person = the autistic person is at fault
NT person behaves in a way which upsets an autistic person = it is the autistic person’s problem that they are upset

Is the impression that I get.

[BlooShampoo]

As an autistic person, I find it hurtful and also deeply unfair. But am I completely naive - are we really just viewed as horrible sub-humans?
I absolutely feel that autistic people are regarded as almost subhuman. Look at how people talk about us as if we don’t have feelings and don’t understand them. We are expected to care about their feelings but there seems to be no expectation of reciprocity. Autistic people are shouted down by NTs who think their secondhand experience of autism is more important than our firsthand experience.

[BlooShampoo]

@FriarTuck hear hear

[TirisfalPumpkin]

Taking it at face value, I don’t think it’s an unreasonable statement. A bit of a generalisation perhaps, but one about a known autistic trait. I know I can be oblivious sometimes and need it to be pointed out when I might have been hurtful.

I don’t think mumsnet tolerates anti-autistic posting - you are allowed to be frustrated and vent about your relationship with an autistic person just as you can with a NT, as we (autistic people) are thinking feeling humans with agency, which we can sometimes use to be dickheads. As a pp pointed out, being autistic does not give you a monopoly on having a hard life, nor does it mean nobody can talk about the impact you have on them.

[NopeNi]

No, it really is that black and white. It's not despotic.

Either autistic people can be parents (and have to deal with that, so do their kids) or they can't.

There's no mid-choice, you can't have half a child or something.

[BlooShampoo]

Again:
“But what about how hard it is for normal people to deal with autistic people?”
Just sounds like
“When is white history month?”
“When is the straight pride parade?”

[Ellenborough]

NTs: continue to ignore us

Just because people don't say 'Okay. You disagree with us and you must therefore be allowed to win the thread and be declared right' does not mean you are being ignored. It means we have a different point of view to offer.

There are long running SUPPORT threads on here for spouses/partners of people with ASD and the challenges that brings them. THEM. Not the autistic person, there will no doubt be other support threads for them. I notice some people with ASD like to go on those threads and police them and tell people why there experiences are wrong and invalid and not typical or representative of everyone with ASD. Of course not all people on the spectrum will behave the same - that's why it's called a spectrum.

But in the same way that I am not qualified to tell you what it's like to be autistic, (assuming you are autistic) you are not qualified to anyone else how it is for people living around those with autism. For some it will be no big deal, a non-stop joy and a delight in fact. For others it will be a huge challenge. You don't get to tell people that their experiences don't count just because you don't see yourself as being a particular challenge for others. Or because you perceive your own challenge as greater than that of the people who live with you. No one set of people is identical, the severity/nature of the ASD, the personalities involved, the personal relationship dynamics will all be unique to each couple or family.

It's not a competition.

[Ellenborough]

poor little NT people who have to suffer the trials and tribulations of having to endure a thoroughly unpleasant autistic person who should have been put down at birth or preferably not have even been born.

Oh for crying out loud, can we STOP with this ridiculous rhetoric? It's deeply unhelpful and a very unintelligent way to engage in debate.

[Ellenborough]

Nope

I disagree with you.

[BlooShampoo]

I’m not trying to make it into a competition, and I don’t think anyone else is either. It’s just frustrating to have NTs wrongly infer autistic people’s level of caring/empathy from their behaviour (eg the example I gave above about when I was a kid) and/or generalise about negative behaviours and disingenuously say that it’s an autistic trait, as if autistic people have diagnostic criteria instead of personality traits, and as if we aren’t individuals to the same extent that NT people are.

[NopeNi]

Okay - tell me what the other fucking option is, please?

[BlooShampoo]

assuming you are autistic
I’m trying to ask this in a way that won’t come off as “you wot m8”... I’m just really curious what you mean?
I am professionally diagnosed, by multiple experts in the field after a lengthy diagnostic assessment. It’s beyond reasonable doubt that I am indeed autistic.

[SnuggyBuggy]

I get what EllenBorough is saying. Those children are people too with their own needs and feelings who may well suffer from long term effects from their childhood.

I'm not keen on the suffering top trumps approach either personally.

[acciocat]

‘normal people’

Fuck sake what does that even mean? All of humanity are on a continuum of strengths, difficulties, behaviours... just because people don’t have a diagnosis doesn’t mean they’re just lumped into a homogenous mass of ‘NT.’ How about the fact we’re all neurologically diverse?

[BlooShampoo]

Those children are people too with their own needs and feelings who may well suffer from long term effects from their childhood
Agree

I'm not keen on the suffering top trumps approach either personally
I don’t think it’s top trumps at all. It’s us, as autistic people, reading things about us which feel quite dehumanising and voicing our disagreement.

[BlooShampoo]

Well the term that autistic people use for non-autistic people is “allistic” but i thought that might be too idiosyncratic. I was just trying to avoid being repetitive - apologies for any offence caused.