Meet the Other Phone. Only the apps you allow.

Meet the Other Phone.
Only the apps you allow.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To wonder why women don't rule the world?

90 replies

Imsosorryalan75 · 04/04/2019 18:09

When you consider that the majority of crime, violence and war in the world is organised and committed by men.
I wish women had a chance of being in the driving seat for a change.

OP posts:
RuggyPeg · 04/04/2019 23:26

Happy - it's really not that straight cut. I quite like to jump in feet first, can't abide talking things through to death and am not arsed about keeping the peace particularly, in a work capacity anyway. Not that I look for conflict per se - I just don't take responsibility for patting everyone down. I'm a woman but I don't think in terms of masculine/feminine traits cos I think it's largely a social construct.

Collectingcpd · 05/04/2019 08:54

Again, in a male dominated world, the majority of women are expected to take the part time roles, to take on the familial responsibilities, limiting their options for career progression in a full time capacity

I’m not sure I agree with this. With a couple of exceptions the women I know who work full time do so because they have to, rather than they choose to. They have to because they are the main breadwinner and often, in their field, and at their salary level, part time isn’t an option. Financially they could could sacrifice one or 2 days a week, but that isn’t an option in their role......and there are many senior roles for which part time or job sharing just isn’t an option. if your OH doesn’t earn enough to cover the bills what choice do you have?

Sure, many men do expect their partners to do most of the child care, but in my experience (and I’m referring mostly to high earning professional women) most women want to work part time, which by default means they will pick up most of the domestic chores.

PBo83 · 05/04/2019 09:58

I can't help but feel that this thread hasn't descended into the man-bashing 'battle of the sexes' that the OP was hoping for.

The80sweregreat · 05/04/2019 10:09

People always forget to mention the Queen ( UK) when talking about women in control. She is head of the Church of England and ina position of power ( even if she doesn't weald this power). Love or loath her she's still up there and just as important as the current PM and has been for years and years! There are lots of women in the top jobs but just not as many as there should be for many many reasons.
( knows I will get 'flamed ')

DGRossetti · 05/04/2019 10:11

How much did Mrs Thatcher do for womens rights ?

I think the answer to the OP is right there ?

How much have any of the women politicians we've had, and have done to advance womens rights ?

The fact we have a woman PM who is quite happy to push through benefits legislation that contained the rape clause tells you all you need to know, really ?

Carry on voting Tory though - know your place.

confuddeledconfuddel · 05/04/2019 10:13

I used to always think this, the world would be a much better place with women in charge. Then the shit show of NI happened. Arlene Foster and Michelle O'Neill have just brought the country back 15/20 years. I had hope women would be able to move forward but I've found they hold grudges worse than menAngry

HappydaysArehere · 05/04/2019 10:14

Well there is a female met police commissioner and a female prime minister etc etc

NiteFlights · 05/04/2019 10:28

Because of patriarchy, misogyny and biology.

The80sweregreat · 05/04/2019 10:28

Mrs T was a terrible role model for women but the Tories do give women the top jobs.
Labour haven't. Often wondered why?

SpamChaudFroid · 05/04/2019 10:34

Because patriarchy.

The80sweregreat · 05/04/2019 10:37

Lots of very strong women were around in the past too. Had to work harder at it ( and become more like a man) but they were around. Lots of very good women authors who tried to help the cause through power of words too.

SleepingSloth · 05/04/2019 10:47

I want sensible, capable people making decisions, whether they are men or women. In many developed countries we do have women in power.

Again, in a male dominated world, the majority of women are expected to take the part time roles, to take on the familial responsibilities, limiting their options for career progression in a full time capacity.

I don't think it's a case of them being expected to, the women I know have wanted to take part time roles because they want to be at home with their children. To be honest if my partner said he wanted to be the one at home with our kids, I wouldn't have been happy. Being a parent is one of the most important jobs anyone could ever have. We need to make being a SAHP hold more weight than it seems to. It's not somehow lesser than working full time.

Dexra · 05/04/2019 10:50

Because the structures put in place (by men) reward and promote men, and the odd woman who is prepared to demonstrate traits that are typically seen as masculine.

LuYu · 05/04/2019 10:50

It's depressing to see the same old arguments coming out, like 'women just aren't interested in physics/politics/[any other male-dominated field]', or 'look at these token women in power: they're actually just as bad as men'.

It would be very interesting to see how women in power behaved if they were not a visible minority working in a system devised by and for males. We take so much for granted about the way political structures operate and how we expect powerful people to work, but none of this is just the natural, default order of things: it's the result of centuries of male dominance. It's been arranged by men, for men, and it's no coincidence that many of the few women who've reached the highest levels of influence are not particularly sympathetic and sometimes outrightly hostile to women's rights.

The same goes for corporate structures, too. So many companies' working patterns, for example, are based on the traditional model of male employees who have no childcare responsibilities, especially at upper levels.

A class of people doesn't just switch from openly and legally being considered inferior (can't vote, can't graduate from university, can be raped by their spouse, can't own property etc etc) to being on an equal footing, especially as one of the physical aspects which has disadvantaged women is still very much a factor (pregnancy). I think it's way too early to be writing off female leadership as no better than or different to male leadership, or deciding that women just aren't into particular areas of influence or industry (from which they've been barred until the historical equivalent of ten minutes ago).

The80sweregreat · 05/04/2019 10:54

I wondered how long till the Stay at home mums v working mums is brought up.
That's a long thread on its own without any clear right or wrongs and always ends up in a bun fight of sorts.
Some women can have it all ; others can't or really do not want to. It's probably a lot of reasons many women in top jobs don't have children!

Pengrin · 05/04/2019 10:54

Take a look at AIBU, that’s why!

InspectorClouseauMNdivision · 05/04/2019 10:55

I think women are their own enemies sometimes tbh.

No one will break barriers for us. We must do it and many of us are. Women are running businesses, running countries, inventing stuff, but it all comes down to...
Are women in general doing enough to get into that positions? Are women supporting each other? Are women telling girls that they can indeed be engineers, pilots, astronauts, scientists or politicians enough and actually support them in it?
When was the last time you bought a science kit as a present for a little girl?

No one will give us anything, just because. Women have to go and get it. So do the men. No one becomes a president, only because they have a penis🤷‍♀️
Are we expected to be at home and take care of families instead of a career? Unless the particular woman wants that, because there is nothing wrong with it if she wants it, well, I say fuck that. It shouldn't matter what is expected. What should matter is what we do and how we stand up to the wall of expectations holding many back. Do we break it down or just moan that it's there?

PregnantSea · 05/04/2019 11:00

There are lots of women in positions of power..?

SnakeRattleRoll · 05/04/2019 11:14

@InspectorClouseauMNdivision nails it, what is that quote? "Don't teach your daughters to chase glass slippers, teach them to smash glass ceilings". Very apt, we need to irradiate the vacuous reality TV star "idol" and teach girls you don't need to aspire to be famous just for the sake of it, we need to stop rewarding this fake "talent" and start pushing the idea that you can find reward in any job well done! That starts with the media. There are lots of clever and brilliant women in positions of power, in science, in engineering, in manufacturing, but we as a society prefer to show Love Island contestants, Katie Prices.

I teach my daughter to never give up, she falls down I tell her to get back up again, she can't do something I tell her to keep trying until she can.

If we can do more of this there is no reason Women can't "run the world", but why should it not be a mix of genders? Men and Women bring different things to the table, different working out methods and skills.

The problem isn't men, per se, but the type of men, not necessarily worthy of the job, but there on breeding and connections. This is the problem.

SnakeRattleRoll · 05/04/2019 11:15

excuse the typos!

LuYu · 05/04/2019 11:52

I think encouraging women to break barriers, stereotypes and expectations is always good, but describing women as their 'own worst enemy' is just another phrasing of the 'well, they just don't want to be in power' argument. It's the whole 'well, you could do it if you wanted to' thing.

Women are not to blame for the structural inequalities which hold them back. Men hold the advantage of precedent, the status quo: no, maybe nobody's giving them anything, but it's being held out with the expectation that they will take it.

Also, IMO the whole breaking barriers rhetoric is getting old. It gives this false impression of a siege line of men across the room, standing between you and the prize, when it's actually a lot more complicated, like a huge jostling festival crowd you have to push through forever and ever, people stepping on your toes and spilling beer on you (often unintentionally) and you never seem to reach the clear open space you're expecting.

It's not a question (most of the time) of being met with outright obvious sexism, someone yelling 'get back in your place, woman!'. Instead it's a slow and constant slog against a million things, many of which you might not consciously notice but which still affect you: being ignored, talked over, patronised; being the only woman in the room, being conspicuous, at odds with the status quo; being judged more on your appearance and having your interpersonal skills distorted or exaggerated (eg you're too bossy, too emotional, too flirty); being seen as dominating a conversation if you speak 50% of the time; being held responsible for other people's emotional wellbeing; being immersed in a media where a female's appearance or childbearing status are often their defining factors; growing up seeing almost every single influential figure in certain fields as male; seeing other women laughed at or torn down for being ambitious or outspoken; having kids and constantly second-guessing whether you are seeing them too little (or too much); trying to work in conditions and facilities which are designed for men; being told you're your own worst enemy and all this would go away if you just tried harder.

It just wears you down. That's what I see, in this country, more than the big man at the door shouting NO in your face: initial optimism slowly abraded into weary awareness that it's not just one barrier, it's so many things. I don't really know any more if I want to raise my daughter with this 'yay, girls can run the world!' attitude. It's more like 'yay, girls are technically capable of running the world but very few get the opportunity and that's not actually their fault, but do give it your best shot, and by the way your behaviour and success if you do reach a position of influence will be taken as representative of all future women's behaviour and success in that field, so good luck with that'. Which is a less cheerful slogan.

Collectingcpd · 05/04/2019 13:47

Spot on sleepingsloth
And this:
no-one gets to be president just because they have a penis.
DH’s boss is female. She easily works 60+ Hours a week. Her husband’s job is even more demanding. Her DC have been brought up Monday-Friday by nannies. There is no glass ceiling for women, just a choice about how much time they want to spend with their children. Women can be CEOs (and are)but not if they want to start work at 9 and finish at 3. It’s the ‘you can have it all’ lie. You can’t. You can’t have children (and be actively involved in their day to day life), and have a high flying career.

Dexra · 05/04/2019 13:54

LuYu
Spot on

SpamChaudFroid · 05/04/2019 13:59

no-one gets to be president just because they have a penis.

It certainly helps though. When my DSis joined the police force in the 80s, WPCs were at last awarded a bonus of a third of a house deposit. The male PCs bonus was double that, at 2 thirds, because "they have to provide for their family".

BloodyDisgrace · 05/04/2019 14:13

I think it's because women say too many "sorries" and "excuse me"s and budge out of a man's way. First one needs to train oneself into thinking you have a right to be here, take space, and enjoy yourself. Or quite audible "I haven't finished yet!' at a work meeting. (had to do it only once, but it worked miracles ever since)

Swipe left for the next trending thread