A follow up on the grubby tenants thread...new tenant has an "undisclosed infant"!

[breakthepattern]

For those who joined my previous thread about cleaning after grubby tenants left... more news!

Never a dull moment.

My new tenant is in and I've just popped by while she's at work (with her agreement of course) to drop off some things I'd promised her.
And I can see she has a child living with her. A toddler. They must be sharing the one double bed.

It doesn't matter to me in the slightest that she has a little one, I have no problem with it, or where they both sleep, at all.

Except for the fact that she didn't tell me. I feel a bit odd about it!

Aibu to be a bit puzzled that she didn't think to mention it?

I wonder if she thought I might not take them on if I knew, although I can't imagine why.

I'm tempted to text her and say what I've dropped off, and then a breezy "ah and I see you have a little one! You didn't mention her? She's very welcome. Let me know if you need anything in particular for her." (It's fully furnished)

Or is it all just none of my business?!

You seem to know relatively little about your tenant assume you have run credit checks, references and Right to Rent process. It is usual to list residents including children as part of the rental agreement. However are you making this assumption on the basis of finding one child's book beneath a cushion. Did you give due notice for access? Even so it sounds like you exceeded the immediate reason for entering and took the opportunity to snoop. .

It can have implications. I let my flat out when I had to work up north on a secondment and the permission to let from the mortgage company was very clear about who it could be let to (not families, not unemployed etc, but students yes??) , the type of insurance you take out is also priced depending on who it permits occupancy to.

The flat was leasehold and had a leasehold clause that didn't allow pets (tenant lied on that one even though I made it clear and I had solicitors letters from the freeholder threatening to take away the lease, permission to let and my flat). Weirdly, it also had a clause that didn't allow children to make a noise after 9pm (but said nothing about rowdy adults).

I would make sure your insurance has public liability that covers young children , especially with the flat being FF in case of an accident claim due to steps, loose carpet etc.

Single parent and renter. I recently rented a one bedroom flat and failed to mention my DD (9) would be living at the property with me. It was a lettings agent, I wasn't asked nor was anything stipulated on the contract.
As PPs have said, a lot of LLs won't rent to single parents regardless of their occupation and income.
I would not be offended by such a message, OP. Sounds lovely.

You went in WHILE SHE WAS OUT?

How does popping in to drop stuff off necessitate moving the cushions on the sofa?

Are you saying that all there is, is a book under a cushion??

I’d be very if I found a child was living in my rental property and had no knowledge of it.

I wouldn’t mind the child living there, but I’d definitely mind if I had been lied to. But I’d have specifically asked who would be living there and to be informed if that changed.

I can understand her lying if she thought it wouldn’t be allowed due to it only being a bdrm or something and having been refused before. But I’d make sure she was very clear that I need to know about any material changes going forward.

It’s my responsibility to know who is living in a property I own.

OverInfestedBadger
You went in WHILE SHE WAS OUT?

Why is this an offence? She said she had the tenant's permission, that's all that matters. I'd personally prefer to visit my property when the tenants are out (with permission of course) and concentrate on checks without worrying if I make them uncomfortable. You have to look for damage or leaks, any potential repairs etc. and I personally don't need the awkward feeling when I'm getting on with the business of my own property.

Exaxtly this

Why is this an offence? She said she had the tenant's permission, that's all that matters

Legally maybe, but morally? Not by a long shot.

When a landlord asks a tenant if they can enter when they're not there, the tenant is free to say no.. just like when your boss asks you to do something.. sure you can say no but really? Do you feel you can say no to the man that writes your cheques? Do you really think people feel comfortable saying no to the people that own the roof you're under?

Just another shitty thing done by some shitty landlords to remind tenants who's in charge.

I'll try to address a few things.

Very good point about wording of "very welcome". It's certainly not meant at all to patronise or power trip.
It was just meant to let her know I'm ok with it. I'll definitely use one of the better suggestions some pp have made. Thank you.

I had to change ceiling bulbs, which necessitates moving the sofa to position steps underneath the ceiling spotlights to reach them. I could see the book easily as I pushed the sofa from behind.

She knew exactly what I was going in for, and I did not snoop. I did only what was necessary. I also had to rehang some curtains for her so I was moving about a bit in the property as you can imagine.

I then washed my hands at the loo sink, where I saw a child's toothbrush, towels and clothing.

I'm not going to detail all the other small things that were visible once I'd become aware, you'll just have to take my word for it that I did not pry or overstep my reason for being there at all.

I think your tenant deliberately lied to you by not saying two people would be living in your accommodation, whether you don't mind or not. You may want to consider if she will lie about anything else. Also, the fact that it's only one bedroom means it will soon become unsuitable and you may have been preferring someone who could commit to a long let. I know it is often difficult to find rented accommodation if you have children and/or pets but you should still always be truthful.

I've got a single mum been there for years now the babe must be aorund 6 Y/O now but no problems at all but as I do my own letting arrangments, It isnt a problem at all.

As far as yours go breakthepattern do make her welcome i mean what difference is a toddler likely to make really?, as as life is hard enough for single mums do make her feel OK about that I would!

I think you should ask her rather than assume the child is hers and living there. I’ve had all my nieces & nephews, god children and various friends children staying with me over the years, from ‘it’s fun’ through parents on holiday or business trips to ‘their Mum is critically ill and may die’. From a night, to a year in one case.

I would always make it seem like their home too by having their things around the house and many of them slept with me by choice and all would have been happy to if there was only one bedroom.

I’d just talk to her if I was you.

Ps: you sound lovely, I’d happily have you come and change light bulbs & hang curtains...I can leave my key out if you’re free tomorrow 🤣

HellAndDegenerates
Do you really think people feel comfortable saying no to the people that own the roof you're under?

That's why I think it's best to have an agent and a contract. Then a tenant will understand that certain number of visits will be done. They can say no on a particular occasion but not all the time and their comfort shouldn't take precedence over the LL making sure their property is ok once in a while. The OP above states she changed the light bulb. For goodness sake, that should be done by a tenant if they want light, it's not like the boiler broke or a washing machine which really inconveniences tenants ...

I think OP is going out of her way here. I'd be miffed about not being told about a kid and wouldn't write any letters along the lines "let me know if you need anything else". I'd say that I would have appreciated to know the child lives here, for insurance purposes. Because, if OP were paying insurance and these sunshines damaged something, and she couldn't claim because the insurance is invalidated, that would be very very cheeky fuckery on the part of tenant.

Ah @HellAndDegenerates all I can say is whilst that may be true of lots of LLs, you've got me all wrong!

I intend to leave her in peace and privacy. I'd bought her some new cushions as the old ones hadn't survive the aforementioned grubby tenants, and new clothes airer, as above, and had the hanging and bulb changing to do.

We'd discussed trying to do it before she moved in, but couldn't for various reasons finish everything.
Then she had two days off to move so I left her in peace and we agreed I'd go today when she was back at work.

She seems very happy and friendly about it all, so I can only hope she doesn't feel intruded upon.

I'll always make a point in future to offer to go when she's in, or have things sent to her so she can do them herself if she'd prefer. So she can avoid me ever having to go there!

I wouldn't have minded if she had mentioned it, and I wouldn't exclude children in my tenancy agreement (why do people do that? Because they think kids trash things?).

They don't think they trash things. They KNOW they trash things.

@IncrediblySadToo haha I'll be right round!
It was only as the previous tenants left all the bloody bulbs dead and new tenant has no step ladder to reach them.
And I feel she should take possession with everything working, you know?

You sound like a caring person and I know that single parents can find it almost impossible to private rent. Generally though, parents with children usually lead less than chaotic lives so are generally better than your average tenant.

I think sending the text might be a great relief to her to know that you're ok with it. She might have been really stressed thinking you'd evict her or something.

It's Easter in a few weeks. Why not drop over a small egg for the child and a bottle of wine for mum as a sort of housewarming & Easter token, with a card addressed to her and her DD/DS.

So that way, if she is worried about jeopardising her lease due to having an undisclosed child, your gift tells her that you know she's got a child and you have no issue with the child being there.

All the experiences of the last week have made me realise we've got off so lightly the last ten years, and in future (and now with our own busy family with small DC) we'll definitely go through an agent next time.

You sound like a lovely landlord and person. Definitely send a nice breezy message in case shes been worrying and does need a cot or something but hasn't thought it's ok to ask? (If this is something youd count in "fully furnished") good for you being a nice landlord.

Look this may all be quite innocent with the tenant failing to mention she has a baby, BUT I( also a landlord) would wonder what else she failed to disclose.

I would point this out to whoever does the next inspection of the property.

If tenants aren't completely honest right from the start, then you need to be on your guard OP especially for eg subletting.

We all need to be more like Fergus Wilson

Breezy text sent, and nice reply back confirming that the child lives there part of the week.

Thanks for the advice lots of you, off to refresh my memory on my official Ts and Cs, policies etc, to make sure we're all straight.

OP this will sound harsher than intended but how did you not know?!

My tenants, before being allowed to view, have to fill in a simple enquiry form and they have to state the number of people intending to live in the property along with ages.

Did you carry out an independent check at all? I'm still shocked you didn't ask who would be living there! What did you discuss when she viewed it?!