Another bike one - contains diagram

[5foot5]

Not a TAAT, but having just read another thread about a bike near miss I wanted to put this incident I saw the other day to the mumsnet jury.

First off I want to make it clear I wasn't directly involved (I was in the car labelled Me) but it was one of those situations that could so easily happen to anyone and I wondered what people's views were on who was at fault. Oh also I should say that nobody was hurt in this case, luckily.

Anyway, as the diagram shows there was a standing line of traffic on one side of the road, there almost always is at that time of day. There was a car waiting to pull out of a side road to turn right, i.e. to go in the same direction that I was travelling. One of the cars in the queue had left a gap to let this person out.

So the car was edging out slowly as clearly they wanted to check if anything was approaching from the left. However, a cyclist (labelled) was overtaking the standing line of traffic. As the car started to nose out past the line they must have looked right and seen the cyclist because they stopped. The cyclist was obviously alarmed as they did a slight swerve and then I could see he turned and was gesticulating angrily at the car waiting to pull out.

So who was at fault here?

Obviously the driver pulling out had a responsibility to check it was safe to do so and he/she did look right before pulling out completely. But it is easy to imagine that because of the queue of cars to the right the driver would not have been able to see the approaching cyclist until they were pulled quite a long way forward.

The car in the queue should have been able to see the cyclist approaching in their wing mirror so could they have done something to warn the driver who was attempting to pull out?

Or should the cyclist have maybe read the road a bit better and realised that it was not unlikely that this could happen, i.e. queue of traffic and a gap having been left.

Interested in any thoughts / opinions on this?

This is why driving instructors advise against waving someone out

Well I did wonder about this because the driver who was letting the car out should have been able to see that a cyclist was coming in their wing mirror.

However, practically speaking at that time of day if cars in the stationary queue didn't let people from the side road out then they would never get out!

I have seen EXACTLY this scenario happen.

No, you didn't... what you saw was an incident where a cyclist collided with a car. What OP saw was nothing. It certainly wasn't 'EXACTLY' the same.

The bike went over the car bonnet and the cyclist was hurt. As you say, the car driver would have been mainly looking left not right, since the traffic to the right was stationery and had let her out.

The cyclist was on the right of the traffic (rather than left) because he was about to turn right into a small cycle lane (not road).

I have thought about it since and honestly couldn't figure out whose fault it was or how it could have been avoided.

So to all those saying it was a non-event - it was a bad event in the identical case I saw!

But the case you saw wasn't identical 🤷🏻‍♀️

The car you said led to a bike going over a car bonnet. The case in the OP absolutely was a non event. Because nothing happened. Because the car driver was proceeding with caution.

Had there been an incident it would likely end up 50 50 - car pulling out should not do so without checking for everything and cyclist should have had more caution in overtaking in queued trafic with a junction gap

One of the problems with cyclists on the road is that they don’t think or act like drivers. Cars will often slow down to let other cars join or cross the flow of traffic, likewise to allow pedestrians to cross. We call it good manners or being considerate. I have never seen a cyclist do this even when it’s obvious that’s what the cars around them are doing. In this case, the cyclist was not technically in the wrong, they were just not reading the road and traffic conditions or showing consideration for and awareness of other road users. The driver read that there was nothing coming the other way and it would be courteous to allow the other driver out. The cyclist was not seeing themselves as a road user expected to show courtesy to other road users so was not anticipating what might happen.

One of the problems with cyclists on the road is that they don’t think or act like drivers.

Well, no, not at the time that they are on a bike, because at that specific moment in time they are not a driver and can't behave like one. They can't as easily accelerate or decelerate and have to operate differently to drivers.

That doesn't mean they don't understand how drivers operate. The vast majority of people who cycle also drive.

This road had single lanes in each direction. Imagine if it were 4 lanes. The car entering the road and turning right would have to cross 2 lanes of traffic. If the outside lane was stopped and someone allowed them in, it is the responsibility of the 'new' car to cross both lanes safely. The cyclist had to cross the midline to avoid the car, thereby putting themselves in the path of oncoming traffic. That's why I think the car was at fault.

That's why I think the car was at fault

But there was no incident and therefore no fault. The car proceeded with caution.

This post is goady because we are supposed to be annoyed at the cyclist for showing an angry and frustrated response. If a similar non-scenario had occurred between two cars, I’ll bet you money the person in the ‘other’ car might gesticulate or swear at the emerging car - the difference being nobody would see it because they are in a car and/or we are all used to drivers expressing their frustration,

Cycling is dangerous enough - personally, i have experienced a painful smash over a car bonnet due to someone pulling out of a side road directly into me - without stirring up even more unnecessary cyclist v car anger.

Not rtft but i do appreciate the quality of your diagram it's a cut above most mn diagrams:-)