to think that May’s offer to Corbyn is a bogus one

[How999]

(quite apart from the fact that of course she should have been reaching across the house 2.5 years ago before negotiations started)

I cannot believe that she will take on board some of what Labour want in order to make her deal fly.

The first Corbyn heard of this was from her address on the TV.

I think she will offer next to no concessions, and then somehow pin the blame on Labour when her deal is again voted down. Or when he refuses to be hoodwinked in the first place.

I don't understand how any of this can work

Of course it can work. It's really simple.

Basically she couldn't get her deal through with her party and the dup.

Now she's trying to team up with labour. If they both agree, and she knows he wishes a customs union, as do many of her party, it's ken Clarke's motion that was only defeated by three, and that was because she whipped against all motions that day, then they can both whip their parties and even with rebels, it will easily pass.

If she decides not to play ball with him, it goes to parliament, whatever gets the most votes becomes binding, it then doesn't need to be voted on again. She will act on thr result of the vote.

It can't not work.

This truly is beyond a shit show now!

I don’t think May and JC will be able to work anything out.

It’s all a smear campaign, as a GE will be forced soon enough.

I don’t know, she’s out of ideas and she doesn’t have a majority to get anything through. It makes a certain sense.

The customs union motion came very close to passing. If they worked together they could get that through. She wants to avoid a GE.

On another note she should probably demand her money back from the DUP as they have fucked her over constantly.

I don't think so. She's done it in such a way it has to conclude. If it goes to indicative votes next week it's very different to what we saw this week, it's binding. So whatever get the most, she acts on.

What is comical though, is Rees mogg is beyond fuming, he's out there making a statement saying no one is representing the leave voters, pretending we aren't actually going to leave and that's not what she's saying, and that everyone who voted leave did so on the understanding of no deal. Such a poor loser.

As much as I can't stand Corbyn, I do agree with him, people who voted leave didn't also vote to lose their jobs and have drastically worse living conditions for at least a generation.

And we still have twats scaremongering saying the eu won't agree. They will. We will agree to the eu elections and pull back when we need to. They have already said this is acceptable.

Oh and with a customs union, the back stop becomes irrelevant, as there is then no need for a hard border.

Its a trap

Mogg is beyond fuming, he's out there making a statement saying no one is representing the leave voters, pretending we aren't actually going to leave and that's not what she's saying, and that everyone who voted leave did so on the understanding of no deal.

I know, it’s pathetic.

I hope the leave voters have noted that remain MPs have (in the main) done far more to facilitate leaving than the ultra brexiteers who’ve voted against every motion to leave so far. Time wasting, self serving trolls that they are.

I hope the leave voters have noted that remain MPs have (in the main) done far more to facilitate leaving than the ultra brexiteers who’ve voted against every motion to leave so far

This is a valid point. Every single thing Rees mogg, Boris etc have done is ultimately designed to keep us in, because we will never go for no deal, so by rejecting everything they force us to stay in. Whilst pretending otherwise.

Corbyn frustrated all Mays attempts at getting her WA through. My guess is that if she gives him some say in it then he will tell his minions to vote for it. I think May genuinely does want to leave with a deal. The problem is the HOC don't want a deal that is best for the EU. Corbyn only wants to disagree with anything May comes up with.

It'll be interesting to see if May and Corbyn can stay in the same room together and agree on something.

Jacob is not a loser. he earned lots of money through brexit and continue to do so. he is an opportunist. i used to think he sounded good but lost all my respect.
agree with Laura TM is after votes from Lab and DUP should pay all the money back.

I think May genuinely does want to leave with a deal.

I think that’s true. She wants to deliver Brexit. She doesn’t want to crash out. And there’s more integrity there than the ERG crew.

And JC also wants to leave with a deal (and he’s more against crashing out than May). She might find Corbyn easier to work with than her own party.

a deal that is best for the EU.

Everyone needs to start working in the realm of the possible. The chasing unicorn shit has to stop.

Corbyns issue is not with the withdrawal agreement, it never has been, he's always said that and he stated it again last night,

Corbyns issue is with the political declaration, which is the statement which talks to the future relationship and which has to be considered with the political declaration.

If this is changed, and the eu has said it can be, it's only the withdrawal agreement which can't be (it's just a two year transition agreement), and if it's changed to something Corbyn and others wish, ie a customs union aka ken Clarke's motion, it will fly through the house. Even with all the mad rebels opposing it.

I don't believe it's a bogus offer OP. I think it's out of desperation and frustration with the whole process. What else is there left to do? With every passing day any agreement in parliament gets further and further out of reach.

I really hope JC will finally get off the fence and accept the offer to get this shitshow sorted out. I really hope that they can put the country before party posturing at this critical time. You would hope that both of them are in the job ultimately for what's best for the country, even if they do a bloody good job of hiding it.

The problem for me is not future deal but withdrawal treary itself. ☆I don't like the backstop which treats NI differently from rest of UK.

It’s stalemate
If they think people might die through lack of meds (no idea on reality) I reckon most would try to do whatever

I don't like the backstop which treats NI differently from rest of UK.

So what’s your suggestion, given GFA obligations?

The problem for me is not future deal but withdrawal treary itself. ☆I don't like the backstop which treats NI differently from rest of UK.

That's illogical. If we agree a customs union, then there is no need for the back stop as we don't need any hard borders, goods can move freely, so your issue is with the political,declaration as it's what makes the back stop necessary in the withdrawal agreement.

I'm very suspicious that she is suddenly giving JC as seat at the table.

It's either a trap/someone to blame or sheer desperation.

The fact that Moggy doesn't like it and has referred to JC as a Marxist and Deputy leader of the Tories has made my day!

If Mogg is against it, that’s enough for me to conclude it’s a good thing

It's not a trap fgs

And what bluntness said

I don't think it's a trap as such, but I do think it's likely to be a false dawn. The government needs some Labour MPs to help get the withdrawal agreement over the line, but the compromise that that will inevitably entail seems no more likely today than it did last week or last year. If the government genuinely wanted to compromise, they could do that by themselves without actually involving Corbyn in their deliberations - which is akin to lobbing a molotov cocktail into proceedings as far as most tories are concerned, I imagine. If it took 7 hours in cabinet to conclude that this was the best way forward, then there's already been a serious inability to compromise going on, even at this screamingly late stage. And you can blame the headbangers for that, but May is the one who stuffed her cabinet with them, and now seems bemused at what a handbrake on progress they represent.

I also think the government entirely fails to appreciate how little compromising it's done so far. I've heard MPs declaring they've already compromised massively over issues such as the backstop and the £39bn, but what they don't seem to understand is that they were compromising with the cold, hard reality that was sadly lacking from the leave campaign - not with the liberals, centrists and leftists, most of whom don't want Brexit at all (and represent voters who don't want it either).

So I don't see anything good coming out of this. Corbyn will either be firm about Labour's own red lines and the hard brexiters will have a cow, or he'll be wishy washy and sell out on the confirmatory vote policy, in which case May can kiss goodbye to the Labour votes. By that time it will be the middle of next week and even Donald Tusk will have lost his zen.

Thank god the backbenchers are taking some initiative, at least. There are 20 or so MPs who have been working diligently across the aisle for months to try and steer us away from the abyss, and they are the only ones imo who come out of this mess looking anything other than corrupt or delusional. The fact that they're the ones now racking up death threats tells you all you need to know about what all this has done to the country.

If the government genuinely wanted to compromise, they could do that by themselves without actually involving Corbyn in their deliberations

I don't think this is true and it certainly wouldn't be wise. She is meeting all the leaders today, if she can get an agreement on one thing, like a customs union, and their agreement, then this will fly through the house.

If however she doesn't seek their alignment, there is a huge change they will all attack her still, viewing her with mistrust.

As such' I think getting everyone's buy in, and agree,ent to stick to it, whatever it is, is the right way forward.

She is meeting all the leaders today

She's meeting Jeremy Corbyn and the heads of the devolved administrations. Afaik, she's not meeting any other party leaders.

I don't agree with your other comments either fwiw, but you may be right. There is certainly a great deal of paranoia underpinning activity in Wesminster at this point.

I think you're arguing semantics, for me the head of an administration is a leader. I never said party leaders.

Nice attempt to blame someone else. And, yes she should definitely demand the bribe to the DUP to be repaid.

When you said "all the leaders", you meant Mark Drakeford, the FMW, and Nicola Sturgeon, the FMS? Well, okay then, apologies for misunderstanding.

But while Sturgeon is also the leader of the SNP, Drakeford is a Labour AM, so how his presence in addition to Corbyn's would make any agreement "fly through the house" (in which he doesn't even sit) I can't quite understand.

More interestingly, the smaller opposition parties in Westminster are quite pissed off at not being included (although personally I can think of a few good reasons why, today at least) and are busy wargaming in a meeting of their own as we speak. Can't wait for all the briefings later...