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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Travelling for work purpose when on annual leave

38 replies

Whatisthisallabout · 02/04/2019 19:49

I've name changed for this as it could be outing.

I travel a lot for work, lots of trains and overnight hotel stays, which means a lot of time away from home and family life. Recently we have been told that we have to make as many savings to our travel as possible.

Next week I am working not too far from home on Monday but still 30 miles and £50 return train journey from home. I'm off on annual leave on Tuesday but have to be a 4.5 hour train journey away from home on Wednesday and need to be there at 10am.

My partner lives halfway between wher I m on Monday and where I need to be on Wednesday, however he's not home on Monday night. To save money I thought I would go from my place of work Monday to his, stay there overnight and get a train from there to my meeting on Wednesday. The cost of that entire trip (both legs) is £100. To go from my normal place of work to the Wednesday morning meeting would involve me either leaving at 0500 on Wednesday at a cost of a peak train ticket for £300 or leaving on Tuesday night (on my days annual leave), staying in a hotel approx £75 and a return train ticket at £180. Which basically saved them approx £150.

To my mind this made sense. I was saving the business money and I couldn't have my DC on Tuesday night anyway as I'd either be away or getting up to early. They would have to stay with their dad.

Today my boss called me to say she couldn't approve my trips as she "couldn't find my social to see DP". I explained why I had done it like that and she said that it looked like a social so she wouldn't sign it off. She advised it was better to spend the extra money as it looked better.

She then followed this up with an email to say that "I know it's horrible to have to travel on your annual leave. But I do it all the time and it's expected. You can either do this or travel at 0500; you should be back by 1900"

I'm furious. I was honestly trying to save them money, it also meant I could see DP on Tuesday, which I don't mind paying my own way for, but to expect me to use 4.5 hours of my annual leave to save them money is outrageous in my opinion. AIBU to say this is a breach of employment law and I'm not going to do it?

For context I am contracted 37 hours a week. I work away 2 days a week on average and often work many many more hours than I am contracted.

OP posts:
EvelynShaw · 02/04/2019 19:57

I don’t know whether it is illegal (I’m not in the UK), but it is ridiculous. In these circumstances, my employer would simply ask for proof of the two sets of cost, and either pay the cheaper, or ask us to pay the difference if more expensive. Depending on level, we would also be compensated for overtime.

What would happen if you just charge from your DP’s to the meeting and then back to your place of work?

Loopytiles · 02/04/2019 19:59

Your boss is being U.

I would travel at 5am and cost the company the extra money.

ShirleyPhallus · 02/04/2019 20:00

I’d reply and say you expect to receive a half day annual leave back then for your time

Cheeky fuck

Original poster
Whatisthisallabout · 02/04/2019 20:13

Thank you. I was starting to think I am being stupid. I'd love to make them buy me a peak time ticket but I would feel too bad about it so I know I won't. I'm so pissed off though, the way she made it seem like I was taking the micky when actually they seem to feel its OK to make me use my leave to fulfil their business needs.

OP posts:
Original poster
Whatisthisallabout · 02/04/2019 20:17

@evelynshaw I'm not sure. I was so pissed off and taken aback that I didn't ask.

It's only £15-20 from where I am working on Monday to DP's so it's actually £10 less than going to and from work (which they also pay for as its not my base).

OP posts:
DianaT1969 · 02/04/2019 20:32

Can you cancel your annual leave? Do you need to take Tuesday off? If not, I'd go at 5am and charge them more.

C0untDucku1a · 02/04/2019 20:38

They are being Ridiculous.

Original poster
Whatisthisallabout · 02/04/2019 20:41

@DianaT1969 I can't really cancel it as I have commitments that day; otherwise I totally would. I feel like taking this to the trade union ans seeing what they think about it.

OP posts:
IchWill · 02/04/2019 20:51

@Whatisthisallabout How long have you worked there? Are you a member of your union. You normally have to be a paid member for a few months, before using their services. At least that has been the case for me. Also you don't have much employment rights if you have worked somewhere less than two years.

If I was you, I'd start logging stuff down and also make a call to the union for advice on an informal basis to see where you stand. If you aren't in the union, ACAS are extremely helpful.

Do you usually get on with this manager? Does she have form for OTT kind of behaviour?

I used the union for unfair behaviour from my manager at the head office of a massive UK retailer (I got a written warning for not coming back to work after my annual leave ended, which was because I was taken ill on holiday, kept in intensive care and couldn't fly back until I was fit! Which they knew). The union wiped the absolute floor with them and got the warning over turned.

And no, you're DNBU, you need a work / life balance. Good luck OP.

burnoutbabe · 02/04/2019 21:00

Can't you book a hotel Tuesday night and your dp also stay over?

alibongo5 · 02/04/2019 21:24

No way would I stay overnight on either a day off or a day's annual leave unless it suited me. I too would claim the peak fare.

Whatiathisallabout · 02/04/2019 21:27

@IchWill I've been employed by them for nearly 6 years. I'm not in the union but the local steward would be helpful anyway (it's a huge national organisation) and as you say I can join. Or use Acas.

Normally they are pretty good to be fair, but I am always expected to do more hours than I'm contracted for, and I am away from home for days on end all the time.

@burnoutbabe I could but I'd rather not stay in a hotel again and have to pay to eat out and not get it back for 6 weeks. It sounds glamorous staying in a hotel but it really isn't. Plus DP would have to check out of hotel while I was in the meeting and travel home alone.

mooncuplanding · 02/04/2019 21:28

Your manager is BU

I’d do the 5am and let her know you are doing that. I travel a lot too and sometimes schedules mean the peak fares. Tough shit.

bridgetreilly · 02/04/2019 21:34

I would absolutely not be willing to travel on your annual leave day.

I would stick to your original plan, make the claim, and if your boss continues to challenge it, take the screenshots of what it would have cost to go on the Wednesday morning or the Tuesday evening, and escalate if necessary.

Userplusnumbers · 02/04/2019 21:34

We have this all the time OP - questioned why we have checked baggage airfares when overnight for 4 days etc.

The trouble with travel policies, is that they're often written by a bunch of lawyers who never leave the bloody office!

Don't have any advice, but do sympathise!

Surfingtheweb · 02/04/2019 21:44

In this situation I would screen shot all costs & pdf into 1 file & show how your plans save money & time. I would not travel on my day off.

LittleOwl153 · 02/04/2019 21:52

If you are expected to work for 4.5hrs of your annual leave day - then surely it is not an annual leave DAY just 3hrs? (Most of which you will be working over the following day it seems.) Sounds like you need to start tightening up your time...

ZippyBungleandGeorge · 02/04/2019 21:55

@Whatisthisallabout are you public sector? Your boss sounds an awful lot like someone I used to work with, we managed people very very differently

Whatiathisallabout · 02/04/2019 22:03

@ZippyBungleandGeorge how did you guess?! To be fair she is normally pretty OK about things but suddenly gets grumpy for no reason.

@Userplusnumbers thank you. I can't believe how pissed off I am about this. Normally I just roll with it. I think it's the implication that I am trying to con them when I genuinely wasn't.

Ontheboardwalk · 02/04/2019 22:06

Does your boss travel and work away? With an attitude like that I’m thinking not.

I worked for a company when doing a weekend implementation (working nights going back to hotel to nap when you can during the weekend) and they wanted to put me in a hotel near Piccadilly Circus because it was £20 a night cheaper than a hotel near my place of work and it was only 2 miles away. Erm nope

Do not travel on your annual leave day if it doesn’t work for you. Can you take half a day then use the other half paid to travel when you see fit and have done what you need to do?

Whatiathisallabout · 02/04/2019 22:24

@Ontheboardwalk she does but she doesn't have small children to worry about. I'm not doing it but I'm going to end up working stupid hours now instead. Argh. I'd kick up a fuss but we are being restructured so can't afford to.

livinglongerwithcalgon · 02/04/2019 22:40

I thought this might be public sector Grin

IME these things come down to managerial discretion rather than due to the policy. The policy may be to keep costs down as much as is reasonably possible (eg by booking in advance, booking non flexible travel etc). However the ‘how’ comes down to your manager, and sometimes some people just look at things weirdly. The fact that this approach is convenient for you should be irrelevant, as it’s cheaper so everyone wins.

I’ve approved similar for team members, eg travelling to their home city for work and allowing them to book a weekend return at a cheaper rate than week day because they’re combining it with a trip home. In my view it makes zero difference, we have to pay for them to get back regardless but this way we save money which happens to work well for them too. On the flip side I tell team members to book cheaper within reason, they still need their own life, I had one person deliberately book a late fixed train home because it was the cheapest fare that day even though they got home near midnight and to top it off they have a family and were in work the next day! They previously had a manager who expected that because it was cheaper Confused

Check the details of your business travel policy, my guess is that it really is about manager discretion. In which case you know where this manager stands and will have to manage that - whether that’s through being clear with them about expectations, or being less flexible/giving less discretionary effort, it all depends on your situation and how open you think this person is to discussion. I’m a stubborn person and have set rules on things like travel, like I don’t travel on days off, I refuse to get regular trains earlier than 8am (I can be moved to 7am maybe twice a year Grin), and I book trains that are convenient for me. I will of course book the cheapest fare, I’ll book fixed tickets and I stay in cheap hotels etc, but I’m not cutting even further into my personal life when, like you, I’m not paid for all of the hours I work and given it’s the public sector it’s not as though my pay is sky high.

It sounds as though perhaps you’re not feeling your discretionary effort is being recognised and you’re taken for granted in a sense. If you think that will prevail, perhaps there’s a job opening somewhere in another part of the organisation that you fancy...?

ResistanceIsNecessary · 02/04/2019 22:46

YANBU. Your boss is being very short-sighted on this and it is completely unreasonable to expect you to travel during your annual leave. Tell your boss that you'll need half a day back if that's the expectation.

I travel for work regularly - at the moment it's 2-3 times every week and often involving very early trains and peak time fares. There's no way I'd travel during my annual leave - I do it enough already without it eating into my holiday time.

goodwinter · 02/04/2019 23:39

Your boss is being really inflexible. I've done similar - I had to travel for work to a city 6 hours away by train and decided I would visit family, who live nearby, beforehand. Meant that my return journey home was effectively free for me and I saved the company money on the way there from my family's house. Manager had no issues with this at all and in fact told me not to be silly when I offered to take a morning's holiday because I didn't need to set off from my family's house til nearly lunchtime (coming from home would have meant a really early start).

SandyY2K · 02/04/2019 23:51

You should be reimbursed your AL. I would speak to someone in HR about it . ..Your boss might use her leave to travel.. but that's her choice.