To be a bit pissed of with new working hours?

[Binting]

I work in a busy team in the public sector as admin support. I’ve always been flexible with my hours to meet the demands of the professionals I work with. Major things can come in at the last minute and I’m happy to stay and help out late and make up a bit of time later in the week if the deadlines are tight. My colleagues are paid way more than me and don’t have set hours as they are expected to do the work necessary to get the job done, they get better pay, more holidays and a better pension as a result. I earn below the average wage.

I have just reduced my hours to 28 a week and wanted to check what the arrangements would be regarding flexibility during my working day, i.e. if i stay late can i make up another day or could i take 30m lunch and leave a bit earlier or save the time up. Today i was told i need to do 9-5 with an hour for lunch. For such a large organisation there is nowhere i can go in my building to sit away from my desk and eat lunch, so it would mean going out and probably spending money, or sit at my desk for an hour and try not to get into answering queries, phones or look at emails popping up (which i don’t mind doing for half an hour, but not for an unpaid hour). I’m not someone who would normally say i can’t help because I’m on my lunch, but now I feel like i’ll be forced to do that (I actually won’t do that, i know i won’t). What will happen is i’ll end up working over my hours to help everyone out, but I’ll feel a bit resentful about it. I just don’t see why it can’t be a bit more flexible, as it has been for the last few years and as it is for the higher grade staff. Should i just suck it up, stick to the hours and let it affect my colleagues (sorry, can’t stay to finish that typing, fix the copier, scan that over to X as it’s 5pm and I’ve done my 7 hours) which will force them to plan ahead regarding my assistance, or what?

I’m feeling a bit grumpy about the whole thing but i do need to handle this in a professional and dignified way. WWYD?

Perhaps the issue is that when doing a 35 hour week they were happy to let you work flexibly, but now you're down to a 28 hour week it is not as practical to allow that?

I'm assuming that you needed a new contract to reduce your hours. Was the flexible working part of your original contract or was it just allowed? If the former then you should have negotiated it into your new contract, if it's the latter your should have brought it up while negotiating your new contract.

I get that it is annoying but 1) it's pretty normal to insist that an employees working hours includes an hour for lunch and 2) if it's never been something written in stone then you've just got to suck it up now as you didn't get it written down

I used to go to a church near work that ran its own cafe and had cups of tea for £1 and free newspapers, I could sit in there and relax.

I think its worth another conversation with your manager - and give her some scenarios you've mentioned here, i.e. if you stay late to support your team, is that time accrued in lieu which you can formally log and take at another date or is it paid overtime? If it's neither, then how will that be communicated to your team so they know why you can't support them as and when situations change?

I hate the phrase 'don't want to set a precedent' - for what? Ensuring you're not working for free?!

Tricky - I can see what a big change that is for you but I do think you are being a bit unreasonable.

From the employer's point of view, they now have 7 hours of work to cover that you won't be there for so the 'set' hours may very well be necessary because they need to plan to cover that.

They get the flexibility because of their terms and conditions which include no set hours - as you are on a different set of terms and conditions that doesn't apply to you, unfortunately. What you choose to do over the hour for lunch is up to you, they haven't said you need to leave the office so although an hour will seem like a long time, I would give it a go and see how it feels.

It does come across as you thinking you should have the benefit of the set hours and part-time working (probably with very good reason if the long winter days are difficult for the reasons you give) but with their flexibility without having to take their side of the bargain which is commonly unpaid overtime with no chance of getting it back, I'd think!

It is a big change for you, so I'd give it some time to all bed in. They may change their minds but I'd prepare yourself for the possibility that they won't.

Companies can be less flexible with part time staff than full time staff.

My colleague had a really difficult time negotiating her contract down to 4 days (flexible working regulations) whereas I could work from home pretty easily and ad hoc as a full time employee but not taking it as needed, which meant I did not land that differently from 4 days a week.

However, because my colleague wanted her hours reduced and set in stone when she could go off, the company also went all formal with her. There is a bit of not wanting to set a precedent for pt employees. It is a little unfair in your case because you are not paid that much relatively to other staff.

They should have made that clearer when you changed you hours.

I can totally see them being "flexible" when it suits them not you. Like oh could u stay and finish that u can get the time back when we are less busy. U fed need to start hoping out the door the minute 5 o'clock comes.

I think you need to get your Boss's instruction in writing... so he can't go back on them when you stick to the rules. Make your colleagues aware of the rules too. Do you have a union? or some professional organisation you can talk to. Is this coming directly from the boss or from HR?
Can you clarify it with HR? So that if you have rules imposed and then have to tell colleagues that the rules have been changed that they understand its from HR and your manager and not from you? Then you can suggest they take it up with the manager. More dissenting voices.
I don't see why you should have to take the strain and be put in the position of either nit picking or being walked over.

ps.. rather than make them alter your contract.. just send a memo to the Manager with your understanding of your conversation about his new rules..

Your company is required under H&S regulations to provide a seating area which is clean and away from anything that could contaminate food for workers to use during breaks. If they are not doing this, then I suggest you get into your H&S department, or HR pronto.

www.hse.gov.uk/pubns/indg293.pdf

What does your contract say. We have proper flexi time and it’s in our contract. Not got time to rtft so sorry if someone else has mentioned that. It’s part of your employment package, same as pension etc. Also you’re public sector so are you in the union?

When I was full time, I always worked way over my hours (teaching, it's just part of the deal) and this included meetings that would overrun on a weekly basis due to bad management. But when I went part time I started to leave on time on my working days, politely telling those in the meeting that I have to leave to see my DD before bedtime. This happens 2x per week. At first people were a little taken aback but they've got used to it, anticipate it and actually meetings are more productive because of it.

Tell the people that you work with that your ability to be flexible has been removed, therefore you'll be finishing at 5. They'll get used to it.

Thank you everyone for responding. I did go back to my manager and apparently it has been a ‘misunderstanding’. The not setting a precedent thing is to avoid people wandering in after 10am or leaving at 3.30 (there was a problem with someone doing exactly that, someone who earns over £80k too!), but they know I wouldn’t do that, and it’s poor management on their part for ignoring it in the past. For some reason they thought I was demanding a full hour for lunch

For more context I work in the legal team and I think it may have been pointed out that there are times when my availability is necessary beyond the normal 9-5 and as such it isn’t unreasonable for me to come in later or go home earlier if I’ve been collating court documents past 8pm (which does happen).

Anyway, it’s “as you were Binting”, with the caveat that I make a note of all my hours so that we can discuss whether I need more assistance or can have flexi time.

PS, the meeting about the ‘misunderstanding’ took place after I confirmed in writing that I accepted that working from 9-5 was a reasonable request and that I would aim to take an hour for lunch away from my desk.

Good - but do make sure you do log your time...the chances are you will do more!...and you are paid less than the others - it is cheaper for them for you to flex/work more and do tasks ..... do not be a doormat...
a friend was very flex so much ended up with lots of hours owing she was hoping to use as TOIL as per usual manager - change of manager new manager v anti TOIL/FLEX caused a lot of ill feeling

I have had a similar situation started but they soon realised they needed flexibility both ways...

having been in higher paid roles in the past _ I do make sure I dont work more than my hours now though.... there are reasons why I dont work in higher paid/more streesful roles and the ability to walk away is one of them....if you have health needs make sure you can just walk away...

Have you an excel flexi time sheet? I would also make notes of why you were staying late. Send an email of when you are leaving early or arriving late with a "I have accrued x hours of overtime so will be late/early to have them as TOIL"

Do you log your hours already against clients? If so does it already include times of day?

@random, I have made a spreadsheet to log my hours. The solicitors are in-house public sector, which saves money using external law firms. They don’t clock hours, which I believe is one of the best things they find about working in-house.

@horsemad - no

acilities for rest and to eat meals

25.—(1) Suitable and sufficient rest facilities shall be provided at readily accessible places.

(2) Rest facilities provided by virtue of paragraph (1) shall—

(a)where necessary for reasons of health or safety include, in the case of a new workplace, an extension or a conversion, rest facilities provided in one or more rest rooms, or, in other cases, in rest rooms or rest areas;

(b)include suitable facilities to eat meals where food eaten in the workplace would otherwise be likely to become contaminated.

(3) Rest rooms and rest areas shall include suitable arrangements to protect non-smokers from discomfort caused by tobacco smoke.

(4) Suitable facilities shall be provided for any person at work who is a pregnant woman or nursing mother to rest.

(5) Suitable and sufficient facilities shall be provided for persons at work to eat meals where meals are regularly eaten in the workplace.

@PlainSpeaking, hmm interesting.

I remember one of our bosses years ago mentioning we had to have a rest room as we had over 10 employees. 🤔

Next to your hours I would make notes of what you are working on, long term they may realise they need more admin staff and also it's justification as to why you had to stay late ie because other people asked for assistance at too short notice.