PTA deadlock!

[drizzletits]

I need some perspective and not sure this is the right place but it's worth a shot.

And by the way this is the sort of thing that is making me feel like I regret taking the chair position for the primary school PTA because it's like a political minefield.

The primary school has traditionally run their summer fete on a Friday, immediately after school for 2 hrs. Last year it was an exception and on a Saturday to raise extra funds for play equipment and the 80th anniversary. It was a huge success and a lot of feedback and requests to do it on a Saturday going forward, because parents who worked through the week, could actually attend.

I chaired the proposal and was told the head wouldn't allow it as she can't force her teachers to help on a Saturday, but I insisted that I wouldn't expect anyone to be forced. Had a chat with the head and said if she could just find out who would be able to help then we could fill the gaps if we had advanced noticed. She agreed.

Back to the committee and they push for another vote via Facebook but the algorithm changed so didn't get any responses at all. We agreed I'd look at available Saturdays. Managed to find one. Next meeting everyone agrees although there's a few that can't help on the day because of birthdays or clubs for kids. 2 out of 7. We had already booked a face painter and some swing boats and a merry go round for a provisional Friday date, so we agreed to contact the suppliers and try and change the dates.

Then, through the PTA WhatsApp group the messages started to try and undo the committee decision. Or that's how it reads.

The face painter is already booked for the new date and the fairground rides are booked for the next door village fete so not available. Then came the "oooo we will
Loose lots of people from the village fete " and we need to remember we are not doing a special fete as it's not a big year to raise lots of funds, it was a lot of hard work and let's stick to the original plan.

It's only coming from 3 members of the committee but they are the longest serving and are refusing to acknowledge a different Saturday.

I feel like I've been given excuse after excuse not to move it and they are determined to be difficult. Should I back down or stick to the feedback from parents?

Trying not to be biased, but a high proportion of parents can't or won't take time off work on a Friday to come and enjoy it. We won't get as many volunteers to help and those that do volunteer would have to find someone to look after their children or look after them whilst helping. I don't know of any other school in the town that has theirs on a weekday either. But this is all fairly new to me so please, any advice?

It’s too late for this now but our primary has an inset the following Monday and teachers are off for it. It’s a massive fair though.

Make sure you don't clash with the village fair, and book the best date for the fairground rides availability. Then hold the party line despite the three that do not agree.

We had a fair after school once on a Friday and it was so badly attended it finished early. The rain and wind finished it off. On Saturday families are far more likely to see it is a day out.

Sell as a trial run for a few years.

Do it the week before the village fete. Before, not after but definitely not the same day. Saturday makes sense though.

You do realise the chances that the rest of the PTA are not on MN are precisely nill though right?

My DDs primary always had theirs on a Sunday....

Saturday but without the clash is my vote. Don't rely on teachers' help, but you're way ahead of me on that anyway.

I'd also say a Saturday, but a different Saturday to the village fete.

PTA can be astonishingly hard! .

The thing is, you can’t please everyone, so there is no point in trying. From what you have said, if attendance is low on s Friday, it is worth giving a Saturday a go. Tell people - your committee and your parents - that you are trying it for this year. Depending on how it works you can decide as a committee what to do next year.

Do check sports fixtures. Last year’s World Cup kept a lot of our Dads away and affected our profits.

Can you build support outside the committee? The parents who attend and support every year, but don’t get involved in the politics.

It’s also worth thinking about doing some sort of short evaluation (3 questions max) to get feedback from parents. That could deal with the this-will-never-work-brigade.

Good luck.

I think the way you do things at your school needs a bit of a rethink tbh. Why are the teachers expected to help and none of the parents? At dds school parents are canvassed and asked to help out. Teachers don’t help apart from if there’s throwing a wet sponge at the teacher competition / choir etc. Forms are sent home asking for parents to volunteer. They tick a time then the pfa contacts the parents before the event to allot them tasks and told where to go. Every year group is asked to contribute something. So one year cakes, another tombola prizes etc.

Dds school is double the size. They also do a raffle, which is probably much hated - we hate it anyway but buy the book of tickets. Local people also come to sell arts and crafts.

You absolutely cannot compete with the village fete so it’s wise to change the date but make sure there isn’t another significant event or massive fun run in the close by city etc before you decide on one.

I am also surprised at the 30k profit. What brings in so much money?

Ours moved from Friday to Saturday a few years ago for the exact same reason. We now do a joint bash with the village (tiny school and tiny village) and everyone does better. We never had enough people either at the school or the village to do a proper job.

I am also surprised at the 30k profit. What brings in so much money?

I would also love to know this.

Have a home clothes day the fri before and everyone donates a bottle (of anything) or some chocolate, then you can have two huge tombolas (alcohol or pop/chocolate). Hope it goes well.

Never, ever join a PTA or be a class rep. The pain from the self-important and the whiners is too much to bear.

I didn’t care what anyone thought of me refusing.

What actually happens is that it is mentioned with increasing frequency in staff meetings and, approaching the time, starts to be accompanied by the Headteacher's sad-face. She reminds everyone the sign-up sheet is on her office door and she glances at it whenever you walk by. Eventually, everyone is reminded of their need to meet the Teacher's Standard to 'support the corporate life of the school' and you give in and clear your diary.

Not in my school.The deputy does the P.A, but everything else is done by parents. Everything is done by parents - each class is responsible for a stall and has a rota of parents to cover it. Some staff turn up, some don't, but the head doesn't expect anything.

I can't see how the popularity of last year's Saturday event and the amount of money you made could conceivably be outweighed by three lone voices. I've never known school fairs on weekdays, and if my children's schools operated on that basis I simply wouldn't be able to go. DSis is a teacher whose school does both Christmas and summer fairs on a Saturday: she basically regards turning up as part of the job, and quite likes the chance to interact with pupils and parents on a more informal basis.

How about in the morning if the day of the village fete - so 11am to 1pm? You can make more money as people will buy lunch, and everyone is in the party spirit for the village gets.

We are a large primary school (750 pupils including nursery) and last year made 7K from our fair but nearly 4K of that was from raffle tickets - we dont have a raffle every year. We Always have our fair on a Saturday- most parents work and I can’t see anyone taking holiday for the school fair....

Also, only about 20% of teachers and PSAs even came to our fair - and a very small number actually helped!

At our school the PTA assigns a class to run each stall and there’s a rota in a google doc. Also always on a Saturday.

Long standing PTA member of similar sized primary.

1. Any involvement from teachers should be a pure bonus, massively thanked for, and not 'expected'.
2. Whatever date you go for people will moan
3. Everyone is a volunteer so you can't press gang people.
4. Swing-boats may bring people in but they also cost, we have had events with externals, and events without, and we end up with about the same profit either way => Think who your main 'doers' are, and try to get a date that gets most of them onboard. Sometimes the most vocal are not the most helpful.

If in doubt, go for the simpler plan as it is less stress.

All the schools where I live seem to do Saturday, and get the local estate agents to sponsor those boards you see that look like for sale ones.

For next year get a decision before the end of the summer term.

How far ahead has the PA planned for events, OP?
The PA I have just left (DC no longer at that school) was amazingly organised. They worked on a schedule a year ahead.
Best thing they did was change the time of the Xmas and Summer events (fairs) to span lunchtime.
They have a list of stalls and work out numbers needed to staff those, then ask for volunteers - parents or staff, as long as there are enough. People can split shifts on stalls (1hr min) to allow flexibility.
As much as possible is done "in house", including glitter tattoos, face painting, by trained volunteers. Local business are tapped for prize donations, or food (cakes, hot dogs).
Chair of the PA has the final say.

Ours is always a Friday raises loads of money.

Can you do later on a Friday evening? Ie. 5-9pm. It gives you time to set up after school, and for working parents time to come.

Alternatively, on a Saturday but not on day of local village fete ( or combine the two?)

When my two were at Primary school the summer event was on a Friday evening, outside on the playing fields.
There was booze (beer, wine and Pimms) and burgers + other the otherstandard school fair stalls.
If you can get parents pissed then they will hand over quite a lot of cash to their kids to spend on tat and/or throwing balls or wet sponges.
No expensive fairground rides required.
Made a load of money.

How does a fete raise £16k? I REALLY want to know how.

I would do it on a Saturday and make it crystal clear that you don't expect any teachers to help out. They do enough. Give them free cake if they turn up. Then turn the screws on the parents.

Ours are always Saturday. We've clashed with other fairs and still raised several grand in the past. A Friday would be totally useless for us.

We've had loads of events on different days and Mid week events never do as well as weekend ones based on my 7 years experience. The only exception has been a Friday night disco which is common here.

Listen to the people who want to attend. Use fundraising figures from last year and compare to other years. Get any facts you have and use those to stick,with your plan.