My husband’s view of money isn’t the norm

[ShastaBeast]

I’m trying to get my husband to agree to declutter and I think he’s deflecting by attacking my money management. I look after our money as he finds it boring. I’m just trying to maximise our interest on the savings. He thinks most families keep accounts, categorising spending and forecasting etc and I should be doing this. I used to do this but now look at it at a higher level to ensure we are ok and tot up our savings. We save about £2k per month without cutting back so I don’t think we need tight controls and records over our outgoings. This is no stealth boast as we don’t have a family sized home and will struggle to afford to upgrade from our flat in this area.

The cause of the argument is he is hanging on to old computers which are falling apart or haven’t been used for several years. Each year he suggests spending his bonus on a new laptop and I encourage this. £2k on a laptop isn’t going to impact our life. This has been going on for at least five years.

We both have acted like we are poor in the past due to unexpected events, but we are flush now to an extent and can afford to enjoy our money, without micro managing it. I’ve started to relax but he’s still stuck in the poor student mindset. His dad is similar - hoarding and being tight.

I suspect most people don’t keep detailed accounts and forecasts for their family expenditure. And we are saving more than most people so don’t need to be so tight. Am I wrong?

If he wants the budget done in a different way, then he should do it instead of asking you to. £2K per month is a good amount to be saving - that's about 24k per year

I do keep a track of each transaction on the computer. When the shit hits the fan, I know exactly what can be cut down on and where I can pull money in from. It's happened to us 3 times in 3 years.

Hoarding is a MH issue and often runs in families.

I absolutely couldn't live with a hoarder so

If he wants to keep tally of everything he spends, of course he can do that - buy him a little notebook and pen and tell him to crack on, but you're not interested!

God I hate these threads. "We save more every month than most of you earn, AIBU to spend the equivalent of your take home salary on a single luxury purchase?"

My dh has kept precise accounts since he was 15. Down to the penny accounts I mean. It HAS meant that he's been able to catch out fraudulent spending a couple of times where he might not have noticed straight away. We also budget pretty precisely, and forecast spending as well as save, but it's an ingrained habit so doesn't cause us any difficulties.

Don't get why your dh is buying a new £2k laptop every year! If he was buying a quality one he shouldn't need to be buying a new one. But, each to their own I suppose, it's just super wasteful and unnecessary.

It's just deflection. Nothing to do with money at all, just as another hoarder will shriek with joy if you have two magazines that haven't gone straight into the recycling and three ornaments on a shelf 'LOOK! You keep crap, too! How can I possibly do anything with my three rooms and a garage of utter shit important things when YOUR RUBBISH is EVERYWHERE?' or an alcoholic will point to you drinking two G&Ts some time last August as 'proof' you're just the same and are trying to stop them from 'being sociable' or 'relaxing in my own home'.

In all honesty, you've got a stark choice. Chuck the old computers into a bin well away from the house so he can't retrieve them and buy the fucking laptop yourself - or leave him. Hoarders don't change. Especially when they've got somebody reinforcing their behaviour.

I fucking hate hoarders.

We have a flat and a small mortgage. We need to do some work and may have subsidence. So plans on hold not for financial reasons as such. Unless we want a second house and rent out the flat and we’d need to save about £250k total.

Every year he talks about spending his bonus on a laptop - he wants to look at going self employed so thinks he needs very high end laptop i7, mega processing and memory due to the nature of his work, but right now. Plus he imagines he can be a gamer (despite two kids) so graphics cards etc. Will be £2k as we buy similar at work.

I agree - buy a nice laptop, spend whatever you like. He feels guilty and thinks the falling apart laptop is fine, probably would keep both and has kept his old old laptop too, plus desk top.

I’ve never been well off and always been very careful. His family are well off but tight in some ways that don’t make sense to me. He’s less careful with money generally but weird in some ways. He’s a little autistic although not enough for a diagnosis. It would be good to have evidence that we are in a good position and most people don’t account for expenditure as he expects me to.

I budget well and save. In terms of forecasting I suppose I do in some ways. I am saving up to see us through maternity leave for our 3rd child due in July, have started saving for a new car that we will need within 18 months and have a good bit of our Christmas expenditure saved for.

Laptop is several years old. I think DC2 wasn’t born and she’s now 7!

He doesn’t buy one every year, just plans to. And then keeps the crappy old one.

Luckily his hoarding is only computers and similar. He has a drawer full of raspberry pi projects for the future. And he weirdly asks for permission to buy £30 components. He doesn’t need permission!

If he wants detailed, coffee by coffee record keeping, he does it. He doesn't get to say he won't because it's boring then demand that you do it instead.

Every year he talks about spending his bonus on a laptop - he wants to look at going self employed

Be careful. You know who he's going to expect to do his accounts, don't you. Don't get involved, or you'll be in the situation you are now but x100.

He thinks most families keep accounts, categorising spending and forecasting etc and I should be doing this

That's nice for him. He can do it.

Someone who finds keeping track of spending too boring to do it themselves is going to struggle when self employed.

Maybe he could use some of his gadgets to download the money dashboard app (or similar) and track everything himself?

I am a bit concerned at why you think you need "evidence" that other people don't do this.

Surely "I don't want to do this." should be sufficient?

MissConductUS is spot on. Fab laptops don't cost as much as £2k..
I've had to help several older relatives about this and always have researched it for them in great detail and told them again and again.. Videos and media grow in complexity and volume. Computers become obsolete.. Software becomes obsolete.
They are utterly resistant to this and continue to spend stupid money on repairing and adding memory cards and updating software when the hardware can hardly cope. Then they ring me up to complain that they cannot get their pc/laptop to perform or cannot open videos or photos from the GC.
Two years ago we bought two lap tops for around £200 each with software subscriptions They are perfect. OH got a wireless, boxless desktop which is basically just a large screen for less than £450 - its fast and a great picture. I'm guessing that the next edition is probably available now for around the same price. They all synch with our phones and tablets. No annoying boxes of out of date software lying around or excess speakers or other rubbish.
The old junk and monitors filled the car boot and I an sooooo glad we got rid.

ps. If he wants to be a gamer. Get a PS4 and use the TV.

We never did forecasts or detailed accounts.

Also, I am in software development, and work self employed, and a £500 laptop covers all my needs. Even the graphic design people I work with have HP instead of Apple.

He sounds difficult about money!

DH keeps very very details records. He knows to the penny what he has. He also does some forecasting. It keeps him happy! We have separate finances though.

I look at my letter from my pension provider that comes every year telling me I'll have about £2.50 a month to cover all my living expenses and I pull a face. That's the extent of my forecasting and we do just fine. My goals are a) covering all outgoings and b) making sure the mortgage gets paid off so we have a roof over our heads in retirement even if we have to burn the furniture to heat it. Admittedly we are saving considerably less than you, but I suspect we live in a much cheaper area - our lovely flat will last us our whole lives if we want it to, and we bought it for a price that makes our London friends cry.

Beyond that what on earth is the point of keeping a list of all the money he spends on takeaway coffees? If you're paying everything you need to pay and saving a good amount, then you're doing fine. If he wants to be saving more I really don't see why he can't hang on to his own bloody lunch receipts and spend all weekend faffing around with spreadsheets if that's how he wants to spend his time, but it's not something you should have to do for him.

About the hoarding, this is a long shot but if you live in an expensive area is it maybe worth pointing out that physical space = money? If he didn't fill your home with low value computer bits, you might not need to pay more to move somewhere bigger to fit a family in.

We don’t budget, forecast or record transactions. That would be weird for us, but then our way would be weird for other people. I couldn’t live with someone who hoards or was obsessive about tracking money. As long as you are both on the same page, it’s okay, but sounds as if you might not be.

It sounds like he needs to feel financially 'safe' under the new increased income regime before he feels able to throw away desktops etc and buy a new laptop.

In terms of expenses, instead of having to account for every lifestyle coffee, would it be sufficient to just look at your respective credit card balances and mortgage/bills for the last 12 months and then net off the combined take home pay to see the extent of free disposable income.

If work expenses get put on a personal credit card, it would make sense to get a corporate card or apply for a separate personal credit card to put work expenses on so they don't get mixed in and distort the final calculation.

If you have not already done so, I would tote up all the joint expenses/bills and open a joint account into which each of you contribute a monthly sum proportionate to your earnings so that each of you have an equal amount every month to spend/save. That way, you know that all bills will be accounted for and whatever is left in your personal bank account is disposable.

The above is what I do without a single spreadsheet. The only review is an annual check on the bills to see whether we need to increase our monthly contributions to the joint account. The rest is free for us to spend.

I do have big financial commitments/plans but based on the above calculations, I should roughly know how much fat we can put away a year in savings/investments, via a monthly investment plan or a lump sum scramble before the end of the tax year.

It is rough and ready but seems to work for us.

We save between £1500-£1700 a month when I'm not on mat leave, top end when we are saving for something on a deadline bottom end generally. We also have different savings pots for different things. One for long term, one for holidays, a 'slush fund' for unforeseen issues, car repairs, boiler etc, then often another pot for a purpose , it was moving, then it was wedding, then it was mat leave. Currently not saving in that one due to my drop in income until I go back to work, this sounds ott to a lot of people but it makes me feel comfortable and I don't expect DH to do it. BUT even I don't analyse every little spend, we both have 'spends' each month and can blow it on whatever we like, coffees, comic books, shoes whatever.

My husband and I have different approaches to managing money.

He’s very passive. He’s happy to put whatever’s left at the end of the month in to savings. He’s also very risk-adverse so sticks with low-interest savings accounts. He’s happy once we have enough in savings to cover standard unexpected expenses (boiler breaking, car repairs etc).

I’m very proactive. I like to pay in to savings at the start of the month so it’s ring fenced and then any leftover goes on top. I do projections so I know what savings we’ll have to meet long term goals.
Additionally, I make sure we have a minimum of 18 months of living expenses available should anything happen like redundancy, inability to work etc.
I have a high risk appetite and put a lot towards high risk investments.

Because of our different approaches, I manage our savings. I’m happy to put the work in. He’s happy to sign occasional forms when I’m selling shares or changing products etc.

It works well for us.

In your case, maybe your husband would feel better having more control, and he can project and model to his heart’s content?

@blueshoes my system is similar to yours. DH want great with money when younger and said to me a few months ago that even though I'm on mat leave etc, it had dawned on him that in recent years he feels more financially secure than he ever did and doesn't get a sick feeling when the post arrives, so I think you might be spot in with the needing to feel safe thing. When we first lived together even getting him to have a normal conversation about money was a nightmare without him getting defensive over nothing.

Op as an accountant why not do what he suggests and set up a detailed budget etc. It will be easy for you and won't take that long. Takes his argument away plus you can point out how much he wastes on coffees out, while pretending he lives like Steptoe and sons on a bottle of cold tea and bread and dripping, so needs to keep a similar junk store.

Is it possible that rather than being a hoarder, he just can’t be arsed to go through the old computers to transfer files, documents & photos? I still have 2 old laptops simply because I’m too lazy to go through them.