To send my ds to nursery before he is potty trained?

[elizaishere]

My ds is 3 and not yet ready to be potty trained. We tried a few months ago but he was still having frequent accidents and then tried again a couple of weeks ago and it was much the same.

He is starting nursery soon and I was just wondering if I should try the potty training a bit longer as dp thinks he shouldn't go to nursery in nappies.

I've heard it's harder to potty train boys but he's my only child so can't compare to anything.

Would you send your 3 year old in pull ups or hold off till they were using the potty/ toilet independently?

Forty years ago DC were in terry nappies with liners and plastic pants which felt very wet. Much harder for a child to ignore.

That plus it made using nappies a lot more inconvenient for the parents so people were more likely to train dc.

I'd also recommend "oh crap, potty training". Had some really useful tips and helped me to get into the right mindset. DS1 been dry day and night since 2 and a half (obviously had his fair share of accidents too). Good luck :)

3 is the new 2 when it comes to potty training these days. ‘Back in the day’, it was rare to see a 3 year old in nappies. Now many are still in expensive pull ups which are basically still nappies. There are many reasons for this but the main 2 being, it’s easier, plus mums being told (on MN) they’ll do it when they’re ready.

Thing is that 1 or 2 wouldn't. But the number is growing so much.

Is it?

If there are 10 three year olds who need help at 5 mins a time, that's 2.5 HOURS a day of a teacher's time

It seems unlikely to me to have 10 x 3 year olds in a setting who will all be changed 3 times in a session, or even in a 9-3 day.

when the ratios only need to be one teacher to 14 kids, that's an issue.

This seems a good reason why school nurseries, and settings that rely on a ratio based on qualified teacher status are not the best options for EY education/childcare for 3 year olds.

*staff spending more and more time changing nappies inevitably leaves less and less time for things like craft activities, reading books with children, outdoor stuff etc."
In a 9-3 day last week at my preschool I spent the morning as a 1-1, I took 4 children to the toilet who needed assistance, I read books, I did a mat time, I made snack and sat with the children while they had theirs, I did a craft with the children, I changed 5 children (3 nappies, 2 accidents) - chatting to the children while I changed and singing songs, I told children to wash their hands....endlessly! I sat at the mark making table helping a child form letters, and helped another child peel stickers of a sheets, and another child hold a special crayon, I did a scientific experiment, I ran around outside pretending I was a baddie in Miraculous, I had 2 cups of coffee, I sat with the children and had lunch, I played a game of "crazy chefs" and "sounds like...", I had 50 cups of tea made for me in the home corner, I tended to a grazed knee....etc etc

Supporting a child's intimate care needs, and their development in self care is part of the EYFS. It is something that should be dealt with with dignity, respect and care.

I don't see hordes of 3 year olds arriving in nappies, I see lots of children between 2.5 to school age at different stages of their development and with different needs, and I think a good early years system supports all of them.

*Forty years ago DC were in terry nappies with liners and plastic pants which felt very wet. Much harder for a child to ignore.

That plus it made using nappies a lot more inconvenient for the parents so people were more likely to train dc.*

This^^

I do agree people today leave their kids much longer in nappies- ask any gran. Modern disposables are so easy and the child hardly ever notices they are wet. Yes you do need. A couple of weeks at home , leave off clothes and sit on potty every hour or two. My 4 were all trained between 20 months and 2.5 years, this is not boasting, it’s just different times. I also believe the later you leave it the more resistance you’ll get.

DS’s nursery class at school won’t take children still in nappies. They start at rising 3 (term before they turn 3) and all the kids are potty trained. Not to say they don’t have accidents, of course they do, but they have to be pretty much dry to join the class.

I definitely agree these days kids are potty training later and later. I know of a couple of kids starting reception still not dry.

Don’t use pull ups, they are terrible for potty training, the child doesn’t feel wet enough when they have an accident. You need to commit to the pants (let your DS pick the pants so that he wants to wear them and get a fun potty) and even if he has accidents every time for days just keep at it! He’ll get the idea (chocolate buttons also helped us).
I think people often give up too soon because the child doesn’t get it quick enough but it can take a while (and a lot of patience and washing!)

We also made it clear to DS that there was no going back to nappies, that it was pants from now on no matter what (which is especially important for them to understand if you’ve tried potty training a few times before).

I also believe the later you leave it the more resistance you'll get

So do I. It's much easier to train a recently turned two year old who is (mostly) eager to please than a stubborn 3 year old who knows their own mind. I also believe that once you make the decision to start you have to keep going & see it through, even if it means taking time off work to get it done. Stopping & starting does nothing but confuse a child & make them think being out of nappies is negotiable.

Interesting thought experiment, but can you imagine if we approached other skills (like self-feeding) the way so many people approach toilet training?

"I tried giving my 12mo some food to self-feed today. He did manage to get some of it in his mouth, but he seemed a bit resistant to the idea and kept waiting for us to spoon feed him. And some of the food he did try to eat ended up on the floor. I had to clean it up and it was a nuisance. What shall I do?"

"OP, he's clearly not ready! I personally don't start to train my child to feed themselves until they are asking to feed themselves and are able to manage everything unaided, which is closer to 4. It's so much easier when they are ready, and there is no mess to clean up! Just go back to giving everything pureed on a spoon for the next couple of years or so."

Some mess and accidents are just part of learning stuff. A bit of resistance is natural in any human being who is being asked to do something new and slightly inconvenient to themselves. Nothing to do with "not being ready."

Your 'thought experiment' doesnt really work though....the skills involved in learning to use the toilet are pretty complex, aside from the actual physical ability. Eating and swallowing is mainly motor function.

This is why there are children with developmental delays who may struggle to learn to use the toilet until much older (if at all)....because there needs to be understanding, communication skills, fine and gross motor skills as well as physical readiness and a well adjusted sensory system. If children do have developmental difficulties with eating these will be mostly physical.

That isn't to say that there isn't a window of development in which most typically developing children will learn to use the toilet. There will also be children who have, or go on to have additional needs or who may struggle due to health issues, but sometime between 18 months and 40 months children will be using the toilet.

There does seem to be far more children still in nappies at a later age and it is most likely down to disposables being far more comfortable and practical. But the fact remains that children are no different now than they were a few decades ago and can learn at the same age.

A family friend with a long history as a preschool teacher says it used to be 1 in 5 who weren't toilet trained coming in at 3. Now it's over half.

I think the pull-ups and busier lives are the main reasons. I had to take a week's holiday to get one of mine toilet trained in the end as it came slowly.

Before 2010 preschools could turn away children who were in nappies, maybe that's one of the reasons she didn't see so many.
I have to say, in our preschool the majority of 3 year olds in nappies have additional needs or medical issues, and the very few others are usually in the process of learning.

When mine were little I read somewhere that it is easier to train children when they are younger and more difficult as they approach three. So I did potty training before they were both two and it was relatively stress free. I don’t know if it was just a coincidence or if doing it early made it easier. I was lucky though and didn’t work when they were small so I had plenty of time to get it sorted.

DS actually found it a little easier at nursery (he was in pants but needed some persuasion to go to the toilet). At our school nursery, they have little toilets in little cubicles and little sinks, and DS just loves it. He also only wees standing up at nursery (not at home) because he sees some of the other boys doing that.

A number of kids started in September at DS's school nursery in pull ups. There was quite a push to get them in pants though, so although permitted it was definitely discouraged if no medical reason.

It is certainly hard to do when you're working though. Our CM wouldn't potty train but would support if started at home. I would have had to take a week off work to start it off and just didn't have the extra leave. Luckily my MIL was keen to potty train DD and they did it for us.