To think I'm a totally crap parent.

[breakd]

I don't know where I'm going wrong. I have 2 dc. They are good most of the time but I just can't seem to get rid of their bad habit of back chatting and lots of times I ask them to do something it's a no or asking me why or trying to negotiate an alternative etc. They aren't like this outside the home (I hope!) but I feel they really are testing me. They are much better with dh though.

I get they are young but I feel I need to reign it in now. I don't want them to grow up to be rude and abnoxious adults or get worse as children and begin behaving like this with others at school/ etc.

I've tried charts/ taking away screen time and other rewards have been taken away. It works for a few days and then back again.

Are there any useful techniques etc that I can use. I don't have a good role model of parents myself so I really am blaming myself for this and I'm totally responsible for their behaviour. Any tips would be helpful.

Dc are 9.

Firstly, you are not totally responsible for their behaviour - they are old enough to be responsible. 9 is an age where pushing the boundaries often starts and having twins (or children close in age) means they often egg each other on.

Talk to them about respect for people and how people are less likely to do things for/with them if they show a lack of respect whereas if they are pleasant and polite then it's more likely that they will be happier.

Praise them when they are being pleasant company and ignore when they are not and have some treats (not material things) up your sleeve when they are behaving the way you want them to - go out somewhere together, it doesn't have to be somewhere expensive, or watch a film together and make the point that it's a pleasure to be doing things together when they are being nice.

Hi there.
I know the situation well! The best thing any parent can do is say no and mean no, then follow up any positives with praise and a reward...reinforce what they do well. So if they're playing nicely, tell them so and say how good and proud that makes you feel. Try to avoid saying 'If you do this, I'll give you that' because then the control is theirs. Another tip is to ask them to do something and instead of saying please, say thank you. This tells them that you expect them to do it.
Hard, but stay calm and use the broken record technique...'I understand you're upset but this is what I expect you to do'..or similar. Use expect, need and want rather than would like to because this implies that you're prepared to negotiate. I work with challenging children in tough schools and this works well.
Hope some of this helps.

My two boys 14 & 19. They were/are brilliant in school. Both have always been complimented on their polite manner, kindness to others and willing to help.

I used to be sometimes reading the reports and at parents evening. Thinking is this the same child?!

Then my mum said something to me along the lines of ‘as long as they are polite when they are out of the house, when they come in, sometimes you have to let them let off steam’. Admittedly at the time, I was like yeah whatever. But it turned out right.

By the time they got to upper juniors and they could express and understand better, it calmed right down. Now I can say I haven’t had backchat of ds19 since he was around 13, and ds14 is still occasionally doing it (like this morning!), but it’s short and brief and blows over 5 minutes.

Bottom line is- it will end.

My DC are exactly the same op!

Thank you so much for your posts.

My worst nightmare would be if they were like this outside at school/ other parents / family. I would be mortified.

kidsflownthenest your post has been really really helpful thank you. Such great tips. I feel like I need a bloody dumb parent's guide to parenting. I can't even get the basics right of bringing up polite, well mannered kids. Do you have any suggestions for when they want to negotiate with me. So for eg. If I ask them to get ready in PJ's/ toothbrush they might say no, after I've read this chapter or why now? etc . It's late and I can't have them reading anymore on a school night.

SnowyAlpsandPeaks yes, at school teachers are telling me how helpful and kind they are to other children and their behaviour is so good. I do think they are confusing them with other children.

If they are good at school then you must be doing something right.

Don’t make empty threats or promises.
Praise the good by acknowledging the behaviour - “thank you for clearing the table, that was really helpful” rather than “good girl”.
Try and find time to talk about feelings and flip it round “how would you feel if a friend spoke to you like this?” giving positive and negative options.
Let them know how you feel when they’re rude but try not to lash out.

Keep talking. Communication is so key.
Use TV programmes, news stories, etc to illustrate where people model the behaviours you see in them and use it as a discussion point not to poke the tiger.

Mine are the same, especially DD aged 10, her attitude with back chat is bugging me, like yours they are kind outside and in school.
Sometimes I have to choose my battles, they do need an outlet, home is a good safe place for it.
I find I give out in the moment, later we have a general chat about respect so we can both reflect.

@breakd I wonder if you feel unsure about parenting and worrying if you are being too firm? @kidsflownthenest is absolutely right with their approach (I work in a school too) and you need to state what needs to happen. There is no negotiation - you are in charge.

I would say with the PJs etc, to tell them they have 10mins to get ready (you can get a timer for this) and if they are not in bed by then, then you will give them a consequence. Kids need boundaries to feel safe and you need to take the lead and tell them your expectations. Carry through on the consequence - don't negotiate. Kids will naturally test boundaries, so don't worry if they do, it's normal. Just stay calm and consistent.

If they say no, I'm reading, then you can say "I can see you're reading but right now I want you to get ready for bed. You have 10mins to get in bed or there will be a consequence" and walk away. Don't engage in discussion/backchat.

So for eg. If I ask them to get ready in PJ's/ toothbrush they might say no, after I've read this chapter or why now? etc . It's late and I can't have them reading anymore on a school night.

Pick your battles. Is it really that harmful if they are reading another chapter? Compromise - tell them that if they want to read another chapter then they can but they have to do it after they have got themselves ready for bed and then can read it in bed. Mine would both read in bed longer than I wanted them too but I decided it was better than being on the xbox as at least reading has some educational value. You say they are doing well at school so go with it?

Hi again
First of all, be kind to yourself because you're honest and open which are key ingredients to being a brilliant parent anyway. I'm sure everyone on this thread is thinking the same about you.
In terms of negotiating, decide what YOU want and give the children two options, both of which lead to what you need them to do. They'll soon realise that the line has been drawn but will also feel that they've had a say in the matter. For example rather than ask what they'd like for tea, give them two choices that you're prepared to make. Nothing else is on offer...but they feel they've had their say.
I find language a great tool so say that you expect that within ten minutes that they will have brushed their teeth and will be ready to...whatever. Refusing to debate with them and staying calm gives you control but it isn't hostile and the kids know that.

You call it backchat, but I would expect a 9 year old to ask to read another chapter before bed. It's perfectly reasonable. They need to learn to negotiate, it's an important skill for them. Just explain your reasoning and leave some wiggle room.

You need to stick to reward/punishment system long term. If you keep giving up when it stops working they've realised that you just give up when they don't engage. So they get to dp what they want. They don't trust ypu to follow through punishment long term. When they stop engaging after the first few days, you need to push through and continue until they start again. Perseverance is key here. It might take weeks of them ignoring and having consequences but they will realise you are serious eventually. At the moment they have been shown, by you, that you'll give up and things will go back to their way.

So for eg. If I ask them to get ready in PJ's/ toothbrush they might say no, after I've read this chapter or why now? etc . It's late and I can't have them reading anymore on a school night

Phrase it differently so they think they are making a choice..so...

"What would you like to do first? Put on your pyjamas or brush your teeth?"