To think porn should not be easily accessible to children?

[Iggypoppie]

Apologies if there is already a thread? But I'm so pleased that a check and balance is being proposed re making porn only accessible to over 18s.
Bizarrely, On politics live today a young woman was laughing about how absurd the idea was, while an older conservative dude was for it. Strange times we live in.

www.google.com/amp/s/news.sky.com/story/amp/porn-websites-to-check-uk-users-ages-as-law-passes-11604331

I'm not talking about state wide systems :/

And I DO think it's rubbish to say, if a child has parents who don't know or don't care then whatever.

What of all the parents who have safely set their content controls, with my old ISP, and they were switched off? What of them? Lazy in your book, and fine when their 8yo googles hamster, or whatever, to be offered masses of porn?

I read all this and I think, this is excuses.

People just don't really give a toss.

Or maybe they toss too much and 2 more clicks would just kill the experience.

Yes I hear you BBJ.

I 100% hear where you are coming from.

I have a different view.

Calling me stupid won't change my mind.

MeAgainAgain

You do also realise that your statewide and state implemented blocks are already in place?

That they don't work should show you that it was a bad idea. Not a fantastic idea badly implemented.

My statewide idea?

What's that then?

Should something be done about kids and porn? Yes. Personally I find porn disgusting and degrading.
Could we waste millions and millions putting in ineffective software solutions on a statewide level that won't work? I mean we could but that would be a complete waste of money and that would be far better spent on phse and ad campaigns encouraging parents to install various safety software.
Just because people don't think it's technologically possible to create the kind of Internet safety, doesn't mean they don't care about child safety or don't give a toss. Just because it's not the answer you want doesn't mean people don't care.

I'm presuming state wide, as it would be exclusive to the UK.
What are you thinking of? As from your posts I thought you meant some kind of age verification on the major search engines, which couldn't be rolled out world wide.

they try to cloak it in a big moral thing but it's not

Well you might not think so but it absolutely is. And the government are only to happy to mobilise the "Won't someone think of the children!" brigade to help them achieve their ends. As the majority of people on here have said parents should supervise their kids on the internet. Why wouldn't you anyway?

And do you know what? Most people don't care, because most reasonable people realise that what anyone else does on the internet really isn't their concern.

I have at no point advocated for any kind of "statewide solution". That would be unworkable.

I have said, the main porn sites and main search engines are big corporates and they could easily work together to reduce the chance of people being presented with porn when actually it's not what they're looking for.

That really wouldn't be tricky if there was the will.

For some reason this gets me shouted at a lot.

Which is why I think,

A lot of people don't really care.

If mumsnet says why bother even thinking about it
And literally nothing can be done

Then that's the end of that.
This is a big group of mainly mothers after all. If the answer here is don't bother, then it's the same everyhwhere I'd think.

MeAgainAgain

Oh have you not actually put forward some sort of solution other than someone other than the parents should do something?

Why do you think that the major ISPs in the UK have an opt out system of internet blocks which all came in 5 or some years ago?

It was because people wanted someone else to protect their children. Many many experts said that it wouldn't work. Yet here we are again, 5 years later with people saying someone else should protect the children.

" As from your posts I thought you meant some kind of age verification on the major search engines, "

I have also not suggested this.

It would be unworkable.

BBJ

I don't understand your last post about ISPs.

Our content controls were switched off by the provider, in error. We had no way of knowing this and they still showed as "On".

Does your post relate to that in some way?

This is a mainstream provider and many many other families could be protected.

You are saying they shouldn't trust them anyway? Or what are you saying.

many many other families could be affected

sorry for mis-type

"Most people don't care, because most reasonable people realise that what anyone else does on the internet really isn't their concern."

I see.
There is an argument I have seen made that checking, monitoring or otherwise restricting childrens internet activity is a violation of their rights and privacy.

Interesting.

I have little time for the freedom of speech argument.

Porn always has been regulated in this country.

To say that ideally (and with no nod to practicalities) it should be regulated on the net too is hardly bonkersly totalitarian.

There is an argument I have seen made that checking, monitoring or otherwise restricting childrens internet activity is a violation of their rights and privacy

Well that's just a willfully stupid argument isn't it? I'm sure we can all agree on that.

Well you can agree that

""Most people don't care, because most reasonable people realise that what anyone else does on the internet really isn't their concern."

But I don't know that most people would agree with you.

Most people do care I think about the ready availability of hardcore porn to teens & kids.

Just not enough to make it slightly trickier to watch it themselves

Which is a sorry state of affairs

Humans, this is where we're at.

MeAgainAgain

The content controls provided by the ISP, at were part of a campaign by various newspapers, politicians and sites like MN that brought in the requirement that in order to have unrestricted internet access you had to opt out of the "family" protection. it included porn searches/websites and illegal torrenting/streaming services.

It lasted about five minutes until the first work around but is still in place, it is this system that was accidentally "turned off" by your ISP.

You are saying they shouldn't trust them anyway?

No you shouldn't trust them because your children know about proxies, vpns, streaming services and various other apps. And of course human error when mistakes are made.

You have available to you
parental web access programs
blocks that are available through windows, IE, chrome and other browsers.
You can set up blocks on google search (its actually safe search as standard and you have to turn it off)
blocks through your router
blocks through your ISP/phone provider.
You can even get your phone provider to turn off the internet to your child's phone. (or not buy them a data package) + parental blocks on the phones.

Yet children still find away to access porn on their various tablets, pc, laptops, phones.

Most people do care I think about the ready availability of hardcore porn to teens & kids

Again as the vast majority of the thread has pointed out the best way to do that is to supervise your kids, it really isn't that difficult.

What any other adult does with their internet time is none of your business.

It's the parent's job to protect their child from this sort of thing. Stop expecting the government to do everything for you, it gives everyone less control in their day to day lives and gradually chips away at our freedom.

Besides, it won't stop the ones who want to access it from doing so. It's naive to think that it would.

'What any other adult does with their internet time is none of your business."

Again the free speech idea.

What about if they're watching porn in a cafe
What if they're running extremist sites
What if they're grooming children
What if they're viewing illegal pornography

We have never had total freedom to do whatever we want, because we live in a society and some things are harmful.

It's only when porn comes up that some people pretend this is not true and any efforts to stop certain activities are totalitarian.

To BBJ I don't think you've read my posts properly. My kids are fine. Other customers of this major provider may not have the protection at their router they think they have. This bothers me. I can see it doesn't bother you. And that's the crux of the disagreement, really.

What about if they're watching porn in a cafe
What if they're running extremist sites
What if they're grooming children
What if they're viewing illegal pornography

All those examples are already illegal though. What's your point here?

Stopping kids accessing porn is a good idea.

ISP and search engine content filters that actually work are probably a good idea. Make them an opt-out thing so people who don't feel they need them can ditch them.

Government project to try and block porn? Probably not a good idea. Probably going to be a complete shambles, and achieve little beyond interfering with internet access (in an annoying but easily circumvented manner) for grown adults who are quite capable of making their own decisions.
Oh, and inevitably going massively over budget.

I can't believe this thread, just don't give your kids internet access until they are mature enough.
It's not the job of everyone else to protect your kids, it's your own responsibility.
Sure, some parents won't care, so educate your children so they won't look when friends show them.
Keep internet access in your main room at home and supervise, it's not bloody difficult, but you do have to care and want to monitor your kids.

MeAgainAgain

This bothers me. I can see it doesn't bother you. And that's the crux of the disagreement, really.

Of course it bothers me, but what bothers me more is that you want systems in place that not only don't work, But are in fact in place and have been proven not to work but want more of the same.