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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

AIBU to cut off contact with my mother-in-law?

37 replies

BadgerBrush · 25/03/2019 10:34

Okay, I apologise in advance, I think this might be a bit of long post, but there's a fair amount on complex history, and I don't want to drip feed. I'll try and break it all down into manageable bullet points.

  • My wife and I met and became a couple when we were 16 (have been together now for 16 years, married for two).
  • Her mother was not a fan of me for the first few years of our relationship. Neither my wife nor I really know why, other than she didn't like that we got so serious so young. She actually didn't speak to me for the first three years or so, and whenever I went to their house, she would lock herself away in her office and avoid me (which suited me fine back then, as I was quite a shy teenager).
  • My wife always had a bit of a rocky relationship with her mother, as she (her mother) was very overbearing and tried to be controlling.
  • When we eventually moved into our own place (aged 21), her mother began to soften up a little and started to accept me into the family. She was still a little reserved around me, but invited me to Christmas, birthday meals, and holidays etc.
  • As the years passed, my wife's mother and I developed a better relationship, to the point that she asked whether I would like to join her in running her pre-school, and eventually take over the business, as she wanted to retire soon. I accepted the offer, as I was keen to run my own pre-school.
  • For two years, we worked together in a tiny little office, and it was mostly good. We actually became very close, and I learnt so much about her - her personality, her history etc. I would say at one point I was even closer to her than my wife was (she had always been somewhat reserved with my wife as well, not really revealing too much about her childhood, and her inner feelings etc). But I guess when you work so closely with someone, you can't help open up to them.
  • During this time, I also saw the original side to her personality - the extremely controlling and stubborn side to her that I knew as a teenager. She was rude and demanding to our staff and sometimes to our parents, and it was left to me to smooth things over. Occasionally when I did something she disagreed with, she wouldn't speak to me for days on end.
  • She would often do this to my wife (and her two other children) as well - if they did something she didn't agree with, or disliked, she would just shut down and ignore them, sometimes for weeks on end. Until she would suddenly decide to snap out of it and act normal again.
  • My wife and her siblings hated when she acted like this, and understandably so. It was horrible to be on the receiving end of a parent ignoring you. The most extreme case (which is still going on actually), was three years ago, when my sister-in-law got a tattoo. My mother mother-in-law absolutely hates tattoos, and has refused to speak to her daughter since she got one. Seriously, she hasn't spoken to her for three years now. My sister-in-law is at uni in Scotland and returns home for the holidays and things, but mother and daughter just ignore each other and go to separate rooms (it's a pretty large house, so it's very easy to avoid one another).
  • Whenever my wife was on the receiving end of this behaviour, she would be very upset - constantly in tears, and try and do whatever she could to "get her mother to like her again". It upset me to see my wife being manipulated and emotionally abused like this.
  • So, back to me and my mother-in-law working together... oh, sorry, I should also add that when I started working at the pre-school, my wife and I actually moved into my mother-in-laws house. I know, I know, it sounds like we were in each other's pockets the whole time, and was a recipe for disaster, but it wasn't like that. As I said above, the house is pretty large, with three floors, the top floor of which is basically its own apartment - it has its own kitchen, bathroom, living room etc. We moved in because we had just recently gotten engaged and my mother-in-law thought it was crazy that we were spending so much on rent where we were currently living.
  • My wife's step-father agreed that we could live in the house to help save for our wedding, and eventually put down a deposit for our own place. We all agreed that we would pay bills and and some rent, but it was much less than what we were originally paying.
  • So, back to the pre-school. After being there for two years, and having a few ups and downs, there was an "incident" that made me think it was a bad idea me being there. I felt it was straining too many relationships, and it would be healthier for everyone if I went to work somewhere else.
  • I told my mother-in-law, and she took it relatively well, although she seemed a bit surprised and disappointed. I was sad to leave, and felt like I had failed at something, but also felt that it was the right choice in the long run.
  • I quickly found another job, and my wife and I were starting to be in a position to maybe buy a little place of our own. The relationship between everyone seemed... cordial. Not overly close, but everyone was polite enough.
  • Then, one day, my wife received an email from her mother (even though her mother was literally one floor below - she doesn't like talking face to face, and if there's any sort of conflict, she will only communicate via email), saying that she thinks we are taking the piss living there effectively rent free and that we should be paying full market price if we wanted to continue living there. She attached an invoice for that month's rent (which was the same as the rent in our previous flat), and also an invoice back-dating all the months that we had been there. Obviously, this ran into the thousands!
  • I told my wife this is crazy, and we shouldn't pay it at all. That her mother can't suddenly charge us for 18 months' rent, especially when that hadn't been the agreement. It also would have meant that all the money we had saved to buy our own place would be gone, and we would be in the same situation as before.
  • I said I didn't mind paying full rent from then on, if that's what they (mother-in-law and father-in-law) wanted - it's their house, and they can charge want they want if we wanted to live there, but I said it felt like she was just doing it out of spite to hurt us.
  • We spoke to the step-father, who said he had no idea that his wife had sent the email, and of course he didn't want all that money, and didn't want to increase the rent (it was actually his house, in his name, and he owned the house outright with no mortgage). He said under no circumstance should we pay her any of the money, she's just being bitter.
  • So, within a couple of months, we were able to find our own, and moved out fairly swiftly. My wife tried talking to her mother, but she just received another email saying that there's no way in hell they can have any sort of relationship until we pay her that money.

This was happened 18 months ago now, and neither my wife nor I have spoken to her mother since. We still see the step-father - we have birthday meals, and he's come to our new flat for Christmas etc, but we haven't seen her. Now, I know my mother-in-law is being completely unreasonable, and has some serious issues. But problem is this:

  • My wife (naturally) still loves her mother, and desperately craves a good relationship with her. In the past, whenever something like this has happened, if my mother-in-law hasn't come around, my wife would normally go grovelling with an apology to smooth things over, which my mother-in-law would usually accept and things would be fine for a while. But then the same thing would happen all over again. My mother-in-law doesn't see any harm in treating her children like absolute shit one moment, and then acting like nothing has happened the next. Even if my mother-in-law is clearly in the wrong, she will never admit it, and she will never be the one to apologise for anything.
  • After 18 months of this, my wife is becoming quite depress and just wants her mother back, and she's willing to do almost anything to make that happen (except pay the money, which we don't even have anymore). She wants to apologise to her, make it up to her somehow. But I say it's not down to us. We haven't done anything wrong. It's now down to the mother to try and smooth things over with us. I fear that if we try and make things right, things will be fine for a little while, but then the same thing is going to happen all over again. I want my mother-in-law to own up to acting horrible, see the error in her ways, and try to change her personality and be a better person. She hasn't spoken to one daughter for three years over a stupid little tattoo (and it is little - about a inch long on her ankle), and won't speak to another because (I think) I left the pre-school. Of course I want everyone to have a good relationship, but I can't see that happening without my mother-in-law wanting to change, and accepting that her behaviour is... unacceptable.
  • My wife and I are on the verge of having children, and of course, she wants them to have their grandmother in their lives. But I don't want her in their lives if she's just going to treat them like she's treated her own children. I don't want to put my children through the same pain that I see my wife in. But at the same time, I don't want to be the bad guy, by stopping my wife and children from seeing grandma.

Okay, I'll stop there. Again, my apologies for such a long post, but I really need some advice. I hate seeing my wife so upset by this, but I just don't know what to do.

AIBU and WWYD??

OP posts:
IHateUncleJamie · 25/03/2019 16:45

I want my mother-in-law to own up to acting horrible, see the error in her ways, and try to change her personality and be a better person.

I’m sorry, but it’s highly unlikely that this will ever happen. Your MIL sounds very narcissstic; all sweetness in public as long as things are going her way, but vengeful and bratty underneath.

Your wife wants to “save” her mother and make everything alright again because this is exactly what your MIL has trained her to do. Soothe the over-inflated ego, tame the dragon, apologise for some imagined wrong-doing and everything will be fine - UNTIL NEXT TIME. You cannot and will not satisfy narcs because they will move the goalposts every single time.

Your MIL is a manipulator and emotional abuser. Unfortunately your wife will need to come to this realisation herself before she can break the spell of Fear Obligation and Guilt (FOG) but you can help in the meantime by suggesting counselling and helping your wife set healthy boundaries for self care.

When you have children it will hopefully be easier because it forces you to think what example you’re setting your DCs by either bowing down to every unreasonable demand and sulk by your MIL or being assertive and treating your MIL like the spoilt 6 year old she is deep down.

If you wouldn’t give in to raging, sulking, tantrums and ridiculous demands by your children, you don’t give into “adults” behaving the same way. Simple as that.

Blondebakingmumma · 25/03/2019 22:07

I think your wife need counseling so she can change her thinking and recognize the abuse. Hopefully then she will not want her children to be put treated the same way.
I believe you should have a say if the children are exposed to someone who will emotionally abuse them

Blondebakingmumma · 25/03/2019 22:26

There is no way that your MIL will change her ways or her personality. Your wife will be wasting her time. I think she need to grieve for the loss of the mother daughter relationship that she wants but will never receive.
You are in a tough position. All you can do is comfort your wife, but protect any future children

Jamiefraserskilt · 25/03/2019 23:13

Your wife will never have the relationship she wants with her mother because her mother has relationships on her terms only. As an adult, this is her choice, not your wife's or her sisters. Until she learns to accept this, she will always try and please her and keep on getting hurt. If her husband cannot help her then your wife and sil have no chance. They will always be the rude, ungrateful etc. Kids and her son will always be the good boy that makes up for their unkind ways. My dh no longer accompanies my annual visit to my df because he cannot sit back and watch him treat me like shit without wanting to say something. I allow him to have time with the kids because he is their gf but they are both wise to his behaviour now and I just sit and try to blend into the wall. Accepting a parent is not like the Waltons is hard but once acceptance comes, so does peace. I am the gatekeeper and if he wants to have any sort if relationship with his gc he needs to keep a civil tongue in his head or be prepared to be challenged.

HelenUrth · 26/03/2019 00:15

I'd recommend you buy 2 books by Susan Forward.
For you, "Toxic Inlaws", and for your wife, "Toxic Parents".
Sadly your MIL will not suddenly see the light and apologise for her behaviour, chances are it will get worse as she gets older.
You and your wife need to understand the dynamics of the situation so that it has as little effect as possible on you both. You may find you can maintain a distant relationship, or it may come to the point that all contact needs to be cut for your sanity.
Your wife needs to realise she cant fix her mother, all she can do is change how she deals with her. But unless she realises she is in a very toxic situation she wont be ready to do that.
Good luck, I suspect you'll need it.

BadgerBrush · 26/03/2019 07:13

UPDATE

Okay, so I spoke with my wife last night, and showed her what everyone has been saying. She said that she understands that her mother is abusive, and she also understands that she (my wife) has done nothing wrong and has nothing to apologise for. And yet, she still feels like she wants one more chance to reach out to her mother.

She says that she has never previously called her mother out on her behaviour, and had always rolled over, and been treated like a doormat. But she says that in the past 18 months, since not speaking to her mother, she's become a stronger person, which is true - about the same time she got a really good promotion at work meaning she was in charge of a large team of people, and had to develop a bit more of a backbone. I can see for myself that she has become much a stronger and confident person. She says she now wants to "test out" her new found strength and confidence on her mother. Not necessarily in a confrontational way, but to try one more time at the relationship, and then the moment her mother acts up again, she'll call her out on her bullshit. If her mother doesn't still continues to act that way, she's happy to accept that the relationship will have to end, and is willing to be the one that ends it. She also agrees with me that such a toxic person shouldn't be around our eventual children. She also admits that she's in the FOG, and wants to get counselling to help her get out.

From my perspective, I agree that she has grown a great amount in the past 18 months, and has become a stronger, more confident, "take-no-bullshit" woman, and is a far cry from the timid teenager I first fell in love with, and I'm very proud of her. I think I will stand by and support her decision to give it one last try with her mother, under her newfound confidence, and I'll be there to support her if it all goes wrong.

What do you think? Should we just give up now, or is it worth one more try?

OP posts:
sonjadog · 26/03/2019 07:39

I think you have a go if that is what your wife wants. But be aware that it won't work out, your MiL will behave the same way again, and you will end up having to break contact. But if it helps your wife deal with that, then go through it. I would also follow up on the counseling. Your wife will need help to deal with the FOG and move on with her life when the fight with her mother happens.

Sallycinammonbangsthedruminthe · 26/03/2019 07:47

I think the main problem.forgive me for stating the obvious...regardless of what your wife wants or how badly she wants it is the fact that all the effort you both are willing to put in to try to mend the relationship with your MIL ,it appears to be a one way street.There is no indication in your post about what efforts your MIL is willing to put in to make amends with you.Respect is a two way street and there is none coming back to you both.I am sorry but you cannot make the miL into a decent,loving parent if she is so intent on having things her way.The issue isnt with you or your wife its with MIL,who will cut off anyone and anything at the drop of a hat.You cannot change someone who has such a strong view point.All the councilling in the world will not change anything if your MIL believes she is right,sadly I feel,the angst you both have is yours to deal with,You need to decide how much more both you and your wife will allow this woman to subject you to,,,its a high price you seem to have to pay to be on her good side all be it emotionally,,,,do you both really want to live your life in this void? Is it worth it? All your efforts,all your time and energy and heartache trying to do the decent thing whilst no effort comes back or if it does for it to be trampled on again as and when she feels like it? Life is way too short..I would make your relationship with your wife the best it can be and focus your energies on each other....MIL is what she is and seems intent on being a problem...With the best will in the world its like trying to catch smoke on a windy day,treading on eggshells forever trying to placate your MIL whom I would stake my pension is is not sat worrying about how she can make things right for both of you...I wish you both well but feel your energies would be better served elsewhere....

WeMarchOn · 26/03/2019 08:50

If she is a narcissist there is no way she will reason with you, she won't see what she has done wrong.
I really feel for your wife 😔

IHateUncleJamie · 26/03/2019 09:53

@BadgerBrush Firstly, that’s great re your wife understanding that her mother is emotionally abusive. Please definitely encourage your wife to start having counselling - proper talking counselling to start with, not CBT - and read up about Narcissistic Mothers. Karyl McBride has a good book on the subject.

Whether to try again - has to be your wife’s decision, really. She needs to bear 2 things in mind: One, how is she going to break the deadlock without apologising for whatever your MIL says is wrong, and paying the money your MIL has demanded? (DO NOT PAY, do not apologise btw). Narcs can sulk for decades if they don’t get their unreasonable demands met.

Secondly, just be aware that opening up the line of contact again is like putting your head in a hungry lion’s mouth. You WILL get bitten. Every time. Your wife should expect this so it’s not such a shock.

Have a long talk about this and see if your wife still wants to try to open up communications with her mother. It might be better to postpone until she’s had some counselling, to be honest. Flowers

Motoko · 26/03/2019 13:55

How does your wife propose getting the relationship back on track, in order to "give her one last chance"? Is she going to apologise for something she's not done, or pay the money her mother says you both "owe"? Because if not, this idea is a non starter. And she really shouldn't do those things.

Blondebakingmumma · 26/03/2019 23:07

I really feel for your wife. She has been trained as a child to dance to her mum’s tune and apologize for imagined slights. I can’t imagine trying to stop the pattern of behaviour without an enormous amount guilt, because she is trying to break free of her ‘role’ in the relationship.

I really get that she doesn’t want to give up her relationship with her mum. Only she can decide when she’s had enough of being treated poorly. The above mentioned books may be a good place for you and her to start. You are doing a great job, continue supporting you wife and be patient.

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