For being angry that son takes things?

[ppppancakes]

Earlier, I went to the shop and bought some sweets that I left on the side. You know when you're really looking forward to a little treat, and you come back and they are gone...

DS 10 has eaten them and then lied about it.

Ok, it was just lying around without a sign on saying they were mums.

But he does it all the time. Any goodies stashed away, he finds them and eats them. He hides the wrappers so he knows he's doing wrong. All of his sisters Christmas edible gifts he has taken, no matter how much we hide them. Any odd bits of change lying around, I find in his school bag. But when caught, he always denies it.

And not just edibles. Things go missing all the time, to find weeks and weeks later hidden in his room somewhere. It makes no sense!

AIBU for treating him like a thief and punishing him or is money/sweets/treats left lying around fair game for anyone?

You can both punish him for taking things that aren't his and lying about it and also ensure that everything is put away. Is it made clear to him that 'you can help yourself to things on this shelf/in this tin but for anything else you must ask first'

Well what do you do at the moment? Does he get regular treats and pocket money?

I wouldn’t leave treats lying about - we have our treat cupboard and the kids can have treats pretty regularly. They do take them rarely but I tell them off for eating in their room and remind them they can have them.

Can you take two things of his that he enjoys each time he does it?

Treats are usually all put away and it is clear that they are for sharing/one a day/need to ask. Even if something special is particularly hidden away, he still finds it and takes it.

GPs collect from school and take him to the shop for a treat most days. I don't give pocket money but they get what they need/ask for - obviously within reason!

I've been punishing by removing something of his for a proportionate amount of time.

I'd be more concerned about the lying, tbh. And I'd be having conversations with him about trust.

Also, I'd be talking to him about his behaviour around his friends, because if he's doing it at home is he also doing it at school? In other people's houses? At clubs? In shops?

Why is he stealing food? Is it just food?

It's not about punishing though. Behaviour happens for a reason. Understand the reason and deal with that.

I have tried to talk to him about the lying, the lack of trust, the disappointment. He denies it and becomes very angry.

No it's small change too. And DDs belongings. And generally anything little that he can hide - makes no sense.

This behaviour could be due to another issue. Is he happy at school? Is he coping with the work? How are things generally at home, is it a shouty house or relaxing environment?

Very quiet house, just me, him and DD. All generally chilled.

He's average/clever at school, says he likes it.

I would agree that it points to something else, but I don't know how to work that out because everything I can think of is fine.

I've not read the whole article, if I found this pretty interesting

www.kellybear.com/TeacherArticles/TeacherTip65.html

For what it's worth, I compulsively stole (small) things as a child and I grew out of it! Even now I can't really explain why I did it, I had a tricky time at school and my relationship with my parents was never great, so I guess it was to cheer me up? I think you'll probably find your DS can't explain why he does it either I'm afraid

*But not if

Possibly a lack of impulse control.

I suspect you will have to get a lockable cupboard, and get your DD a lockable cupboard/box as well. All well and good tackling the problem, but meanwhile it's miserable for you and DD to continually having your things taken.

Start by setting up a lockable cupboard for the goodies.

What does he say when confronted with the ‘evidence’ of his stealing I.e sweet wrappers or missing items? Is he sorry then?

Firstly, I’d stop hiding the things that tempt him. Have a box or pantry shelf for treats. He needs to learn to leave things alone, the household needs to stop working around him.

Set up the system with clear expectations from the beginning, have a family meeting about it. Create a chart with consequences he really won’t like. I wouldn’t be above secretly filming him, or using a treats box with a hidden alarm that triggers when opened. This lying nonsense needs to be called out once and for all.

I’d also talk to the school about him seeing a psychologist (do they have one that works with the school? Or know good ones to refer you too?). You are in a bad cycle with him, and he defaults to anger so his fundamental issues aren’t likely to be solved by you alone. A ’stranger’ might have more luck. A friend of mine involved a community policing officer with her son’s stealing/lying. Obviously they were briefed beforehand, and not every area will have an officer willing to do it. It worked a treat, and made a big difference to be told off by a gruff man rather than a ‘soft mum’. It’s not for everyone though.

It really needs to be nipped in the bud before puberty. I’d be putting serious effort into consequences, and dealing with underlying causes. Either you stop making this behaviour worth his while, or have someone instruct him in how unacceptable it is. For the record, my 8yo would rather chew off her arm than incur my wrath with stealing or lying to my face. But that takes a consistent approach to discipline, over years.

I’ve noticed our new school principal has a ‘bore them into submission’ policy. Looooong meetings in her office, droning on about morality and personal responsibility, with the door open to the school community. After 2-3 of these meetings, the kids will do anything to avoid trouble! Just mention it in case it sparks ideas. I have had some success dousing rebellion by using very boring ‘consquences’ that they do alone in a far away room, until done (and no one can hear them huff about). Examples: clean all the family shoes, sweeping & bagging autumn leaves, scrubbing the bathroom grout with bicarb & vinegar. Your lad is the perfect age for these, and the household benefits (which reinforces that he’s being a bad team player with the stealing).

Good luck!

We didn't always hide things. Just when it was becoming unfair and he didn't listen to reason or sharing or "rationing".

Discipline has always been consistent and he generally knows right from wrong. It's just this same issue over and over again.

Kleptomania?
My brother had it through his early twenties.

Not meaning to pry, but does he see his dad? You mention you and dd- is he maybe acting up for male attention somehow?

He sees his dad. He's not a very good role model but he's happy seeing him.

Following, we are having same type of issues with nearly 9yr old DS2. Middle child syndrome in spades which we are working on (individual attention, different hobbies to DS1 with whom he's v competitive) He takes stuff that has no possible value to him - batteries, bits of tech like cables - things of his big brother's that he wants for himself, things of his little sister's to get her in trouble.... He then denies it even when confronted with the evidence, but is very upset that he gets the blame for all lost things and is never believed. We are at the end of our tether.

I think (am not expert!) that taking things can be a desire for security? Could also be cry for attention, or feeling that sibling/friends somehow get more? Any of that sound possible?

@Patchworksack it's nice to know I'm not alone. That sounds exactly the same.

@Tanaqui I think a need for security definitely. His dad can be a complete knob and he has no choice but to visit - part do him does want to, but the expectation doesn't meet reality.

Yep. He can't explain why he has taken things. Sometimes it's simple - like he took his brother's electronics kit because he wanted to play with it, but sometimes it makes literally no sense. DH and I are together but they don't have a great relationship, DS2 has been very difficult for several years and DH has less patience with him than I do. No matter how much I talk about how much more pleasant life would be if he stopped bringing trouble to his own door, it doesn't make a difference.