to think it's common for abusive men to get unsupervised visitation?

[sammatanga]

I've read a number of times over the last few days people saying 'he was mentally and physically violent but he still got 50/50' or 'he was prosecuted for being violent towards me but he still got unsupervised visitation of our children'

I'm sure this applies to women too but I've only read about it in regards to violent men getting unsupervised visitation of their kids.

I ask because I'm in this situation now and it worries me...

My barrister once told me judge's are reckless with other people's dc....
I know a woman who's ex went to prison for sexually abusing one of her dc.

I am talking the entire childhood of the oldest dc....

On release he got overnights with the other dc because he hadn't touched them...
A fucking warped system imo.

@Ella1980 I am really sorry to hear that, and sadly you are not alone

Yep it's the norm.

In fact many women stay in the situation as they think they can control the effect on their children, whereas with 50/50 visitation they're is 50% of the time that they have absolutely no control over.

I think the only way is to not engage with the courts and when they leave the relationship if it is seriously abusive then they need to do an effective runner and move as far away as is possible, ending all contact.

Not a popular view but the courts do sanction abuse to continue, and sometimes the control and being dragged to court time and time again is part of the abuse. Even when these men move on with other people and more kids they still want to assert control.

Im now out of an abusive relationship but I will not engage with courts and ss as my childhood was blighted by them.

My and my sister were abused by our stepdad and we were made wards of courts. My mum was not given the chance once told what was happening to protect us. She would have stopped all contact etc.

The courts gave us first supervised then unsupervised contact, this from from age 10 for me but my younger sister was aged 2 and older aged 12. It was unsupervised after around 3 years. He served a short sentence then got 3 years probation.

My mum was not allowed to stop contact so they let a convicted paedophile have unsupervised contact with a 5, 12 and 15 year old. We as teens kept going in turns to supervise our younger sister.

My mum was never listened to.
The court system damaged me just as much as the original abuse did.

My sister bought a successful case in her twenties as he had been allowed free reign to groom and abuse her in her teens. I did not bring a case as knew my mental health could not take it. The questioning my sister took almost broke her.
Ss and cafcas were told they needed to learn lessons.

They never learn and I will never engage with them.

@flirtygirl

So sorry to read that you were not listened to either, it really is shocking.

You say that...
I think the only way is to not engage with the courts and when they leave the relationship if it is seriously abusive then they need to do an effective runner and move as far away as is possible, ending all contact.

But how would this have been possible in my case with two children age 3 and 6?

The ridiculous decision made by the courts means it is ultimately impossible for me to escape my ex's control (although it is far less than it was) even though I am now divorced. It always will be.

You were failed badly by the courts, flrtty.

I've yet to hear of any abusive person that wasn't an arsehole towards their children as well, especially as they get a bit older and have their own opinions

@CheshireChat

You're right, my 11 yo is just starting to see his dad for what it really is.

My ex has said thimgs to my kids such as to "Watch out for mum's partner because he could be a paedo, you never know" and "Your mum is lazy because she can't afford to buy you a big house with your own bedrooms". The list goes on...

It hurts but we just stand strong against the bullying.

It’s because judges and courts see abuse as a relationship problem. They believe that just because a man abused his wife , he won’t abuse the kids. Because deep down they think that somehow she did something to deserve it and the kids are innocent.

They dont understand that abuse is caused by the abuser. It’s how they do relationships, it’s about control. They might sexually abuse their daughter and physically abuse their son and emotionally and financially abuse their wife.

It’s all still abuse. He causes it all.

@Chocolateisfab family law isn't criminal law so the amount of proof needed is much lower. And I know one definite case of where the abusive male ex-partner dare not touch or even tell off too much a child, who is now an adult. Did help that all the neighbours were hyper-vigilant to child abuse due to another ex-neighbour, who was female.

@Ella1980 your children will be adults soon enough so you won't have anything to do with your ex unless they force the issue and most adult children know if their parents detest each other.

@tworoundabouts when the kids grow up the abusive people don't usually roll over for their tummies to be tickled. It would hopefully be easier in relation to the now adult children, but it isn't necessarily the end of game playing, rumours, sometimes violence.

So basically there's not much point in me expecting much from court then

I've seen the way he treats his daughter from a previous relationship. She doesn't want to go there. She's told me she's scared of him. It's awful and he's not a good father. I'm so sad my son is going to be subjected to the same and there's nothing I can do about it.

@sammatanga

Are Cafcass involved? Depending on the ages of your children they may possibly interview them for their wishes and Feelings?

@Ella1980 they will be. He's not talking yet and still in his 0-3 baby grows though 🙈 it has gone to a MARAC meeting but not sure that means anything... his ex also has a non molestation order against him.

0-3 month

How old is dc?

Do you have any evidence. I had evidence that ex was abisive . Dv while I was holding baby.

Cafcass recommenced psychological evaluation before contact . Ex withdrew from court so never got that far in process

I do think 50/50 care is sometimes used as abusers to continue to control ex partners

He's less than 6 months. He's also breastfed and I want him and bf for 2 years if possible. Never as an attempt to stop contact. I always wanted this. I'm scared that will order overnights and that I won't be able to keep up with breastfeeding as I find it really hard to express.

I have text messages where he has admitted to a lot of stuff and had also been verbally abusive. I have messages from his ex and his mother warning me to be careful (I know this isn't evidence as such). He has also admitted to having anger management issues which I have proof of.

Sadly he is very rarely abusive in a way which is recordable. Most is spontaneous and face to face. Only a couple of times in front of other people and that was milder stuff...

I was told by my solicitor 'the family court system is sadly reactive not proactive'. Yes it took my DD being emotionally and verbally abused and telling an independent third party before contact was stopped.

Just because they have been abusive or whatver to the other parent does not mean they should be supervised with the children, unless there are major concerns about the safety of the children in unsupervised care of the parent thete should be no need for supervision imo

Ok Just because they have been abusive or whatver to the other parent does not mean they should be supervised with the children, unless there are major concerns about the safety of the children in unsupervised care of the parent thete should be no need for supervision imo

Really Adam3322,

@sammatanga

He's tiny bless him so I don't really know how it will play out. My youngest was three and weaning off the boob but I had no choice but to stop when it went 50:50. But of course this is different as your little boy is so young. Surely the courts will see that? I would very much hope so.

Abusers are very clever in hiding their abuse. Nobody could believe me when I left "Mr Charming" and some even doubted he could be anything but wonderful. Evidence therfore is almost impossible to provide although of course that doesn't make the cruelty any less real.

I know what a hard time you must be going through right now x

@sammatanga

If his ex has a NMO against him then he has history? Is this something you knew about before getting into a relationship with him or did he not tell you?

YANBU. I'm sick of women being told to "be nice" to the man who abused them/beat them/raped them/all of the above because "for the sake of the children". It's a problem with the system. Women aren't humans, they are bots designed to placate nasty men all so Disney Dad can come along and pull the wool over his children's eyes while the mother picks up the donkey work and usually the bills too. And what makes it worse is that, while she's being told by all and sundry that not wanting to contact her abuser is "being difficult", there's a whole army of people behind him telling him what a good dad he is