to ask if you've heard of School Streets, and whether you think it's a good idea?

[Toomuchstuffwillkillme]

I just caught a bit of 'Clean Air for Kids' on R4 about School Streets in Hackney. Had not heard about it. (Must listen to whole programme properly in a bit!)
Seems like the sort of thing we should all be thinking about? I appreciate actually getting car-loving parents on board might be difficult, and there are probably a lot of issues that would need ironing out, but worth a try?
hackney.gov.uk/article/4379/School-streets

Ivy I’m just starting down the road of applying for one and been told on here that it’s unlikely I will get one. But I’m going to put the form in anyway. I’m just waiting for a ether from my consultant.

Letter not ether. Bloody autocorrect.

Of course it doesn't penalise working people. I drop the kids off and go to work all without the use of a car.

But vulpine that depends on where you live relative to work and school and the availability or otherwise of public transport.

I live on a road with two schools and before they could really implement a scheme like this, first they'd need to crack down on people who just blatantly rewrite the laws of the road. If they can't police what is currently a foray of selfish law breaking, which puts children's lives in danger, how are they ever going to police the ring fencing of roads around schools?

On a daily basis: cars double parking, on roads clearly demarked with single yellow lines and time restrictions that exclude the school run hours (eg no parking between 8-10 am and 2-5 pm); cars parking on junctions/bends; cars blocking driveways; cars parking on zigzag lines outside two schools; cars stationary with engines running for sometimes up to 30-40 minutes; cars parked on double yellows. Seriously, they could make a fortune slapping a fine on every single one of these vehicles, and yet literally 100 yards up the road there's no restrictions but that would mean walking a few extra minutes. Some People are just lazy. It's the same cars every day, often in the same space, like somehow the rules don't apply to them.

it's looking like you've now twice described disabled people citing their disabilities as making "excuses" for not walking/cycling?

Don’t put words in my mouth ColeHawlins. I’m taking issue with posters saying that because some people have mobility issues, everyone should be able to drive wherever they like. That nobody can be asked to consider their choices of transportation at any time. That nothing can be done about the pollution and congestion that we all face in our commutes and that none of us have any power to change it.

If I had mobility issues I would be screaming even harder for this sort of reform. Who does pollution hit the hardest? Children and disabled people. Who is going to pay for our entitled attitude? Our children and grandchildren.

Why are you pushing back so hard on a reform that will benefit everyone?

@UserX you told me I'd made "excuses". (You were deleted for it).

I've only discussed my mobility problems and blue badge, but if you think I've "made excuses" please point out which post you mean.

BTW, you don't have the first clue how you'd feel if you lost your mobility, so don't employ the "If I had mobility issues, I would..." pomposity to censure people who actually are disabled.

This seems similar to making streets around hospitals residents parking only, it just pushes the problem a few streets back. Working parents are highly likely to drive.

I’m taking issue with posters saying that because some people have mobility issues, everyone should be able to drive wherever they like. That nobody can be asked to consider their choices of transportation at any time. That nothing can be done about the pollution and congestion that we all face in our commutes and that none of us have any power to change it.

I agree with this. It happens a lot in MN though. Like when people first discussed how the massive growth in wet wipes for every possible purpose is an environmental disaster - cue a whole load of posters saying that either they need them for babies as they are so time poor (unlikely), or that they can't be banned because they are needed for carers of adults with severe disabilities, which is a vanishingly small percentage of the total.
Yes, any bans need to take account of individuals with specific additional needs, but we can't justify harming the lungs a huge number of children to ensure that a small number of other children with mobility needs don't feel embarrassed, to use an example from upthread. Those children are being harmed too.

I have mobility issues. I’m not screaming for this reform. It seems an inordinately bad idea to me and I would not be helped by it.

My council was censured for having poor and confusing bus lane signage, meaning they raked in millions of pounds in fines. The council dug in and still will not refund any fines unless the individual appeals.

I've no reason to think a "school streets" scheme wouldn't go exactly the same way, rigged to "catch out" drivers and rake in the £££s for the council. Just another stealth tax.

agree with this. It happens a lot in MN though. Like when people first discussed how the massive growth in wet wipes for every possible purpose is an environmental disaster

It's nothing like that.

It's @UserX specifically telling individual MNers that they are "making excuses" by mentioning their disabilities.

She was deleted for it and now she's hiding behind the deletion to lie about what she said.

Our kids school has done a 5 mins scheme with some signs encouraging to park at least 5 mins away, its a nice idea but, meh? I walk anyway , non driver makes no different to me, a few less cars congesting the hill to school that is something I suppose.

It may sound attractive but it depends a lot on the location of the school, catchment area size, road layouts. It wouldn't work here as it's a through road and I, like many people have to be at work for 9 and drive past the school - my kids are adults!

She was deleted for it and now she's hiding behind the deletion to lie about what she said.

I was deleted for responding to your post making a personal attack on me. Your personal attack was also deleted. Again, don’t put words in my mouth.

I saw what userx wrote, she has repeatedly insulted people throughout this thread for disagreeing with her.

She seems to think that calling people lazy, telling them that they're making excuses, that they don't care about their children, is going to get her point across. It impossible to have a sensible discussion with someone who behaves this way.

Fair points @Aragog

But I think my point still stands. Why do people have to do ridiculous commutes? You may not want to work at an immediately near school, or workplace, it’s not just teachers who end up with ridiculous commutes. But so many people drive such a long way, and what is this flexible working of which people speak which says be there by 9?.

My point is that if things were less competitive, people would be able to organise their lives in a more sensible way.

Ie goood for individual mental physical and planetary health

Children have died as a result of the air pollution around where I live (near the south circular in London). I welcome anything that might improve the quality of the air we breathe - surely there can be few higher priorities I don't know if this will be a cure-all, but I am looking forward to our school trialling it!

Sleepthief that's the thing. Children, indeed not just children, are dying because of toxic levels of pollution caused by traffic. I appreciate that there can be (but by no means are always) myriad good reasons why people need, or feel they need, to drive, but at what point do we say 'your need doesn't trump a child's right not to breath toxic air'?

Should there be a much bigger push with regard to electric vehicles - for example, should all blue badge owners automatically be offered a discount on greener vehicles (as their need to drive is highest)? That's just one suggestion.

I think that some on this thread are frustrated by the inevitable endless naysaying about reducing car use. Like I said, every primary school (and possibly secondary as well) in my borough has overly high levels of pollution. DD has awful hayfever for months of the year that isn't helped by the air never clearing. We will probably end up leaving London, our home city (my home for 47 years) and where our jobs (which are London-centric), family, friends and home are because of it.

(I also think that a black cab driver's 'need' to continue being a black cab driver is no good reason for polluting black cabs to be exempt from the ULEZ charge, in fact I'm bloody angry about that.)

When I was unemployed and looking for employment I was forced by the jobcentre to consider jobs with a commute of 90 minutes each way or I would be sanctioned.

Thread has moved on in many different directions, obv...

One of the reasons for congestion around schools is that parents are allowed to go into the school with children and walk them to classrooms. This is not done where I am. Parents drop children off and they line up outside class by class, supervised by a few teachers. No parents enter the building.

Children’s lung capacity is being reduced by around 5% due to pollution around schools. If as a child the pollution is reducing due to pollution, unfortunately this will affect them for the rest of their lives.

This is why schemes like the one in Hackney are being set up, to protect children from illness and disease.

The schemes aren’t being set up to deliberately upset parents, but to genuinely protect children’s health

According to google there are 30+ schools less than 3.5miles from my house not including pre schools. If they all had to have exclusion zones nobody would get anywhere