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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To think everyone should be encouraged to accept and present themselves and others

38 replies

Headisinsand · 16/03/2019 21:40

...as they are naturally with no permanent changes unless necessary for health and function in regard to what they look like and how they are in regard to personality?
It is scary how false people are. Plastic surgery, sculpting with make up. Putting on a face and act in social media. No wonder the stress levels are so high. It is horrifying to me how different people are in real life without props.
When is the right time to reveal yourself in relationships?
How do you know the person you are choosing to commit to in a relationship is who they say they are?
I live in a country where advertising is more real and the difference is noticeable.
Scars and bodily imperfections rarely airbrushed out. A mix of body shapes, skin colour and styles.
This post has been triggered by articles about children being taken into care due to gender choices. It is scary to me that permanent changes are being made physically and psychologically. I have also worked with people who have had gender reassignment and it didn’t ”fix” things for them. The problem seemed to be accepting themselves and being accepted not changing physically to do so.
I think you are born with your gender, female, male and in a few cases hermaphrodite or undetermined this shouldn’t affect your preferences or choices in life or how you are treated and I think shouldn’t be changed any more than nose shape unless affecting health and function.
Temporary changes are just a bit of fun expressing personality. They aren’t misrepresenting who you are or misleading others.
How awful to find out the person you developed a relationship with isn’t who they portrayed themself to be. We are entitled to our preferences and while we shouldn’t judge others on theirs should not be tricked into marrying someone who’s natural features might not be attractive to us.
The more we change our body shape for aesthetic reasons the more we support judgement on what others think we should look like. Who has a nose job purely for themselves? That is rare usually it is so they look “acceptable” in photographs.
My daughter dresses in stereotypical male clothing, says it is more comfortable, she has been encouraged to do as she wishes but I discourage negative statements about the body she was born with.
My other daughter has a large mole but tells me it is part of her, she is a quirky child but her confidence and non reaction to others opinion means she is rarely teased and not affected or changed when she is.
My son wears dresses on occasion, likes make up and nail polish. I had to speak to his teacher as he was encouraging teasing when he grew his hair and wore hair clips (in school colours as the girls do). He cut it when it was too hot. The children now accept him as he is mostly.
Many cultures accept the adoption of the opposite sex practices and lifestyle and people who choose that live happy lives without the need for surgery or concealment.
I encourage my children to be respectful of others rights and true to themselves. How they are does not need changing as long as not infringing on others. I have asked my son not to wear a dress to a wedding as the wedding is not about him and not ok to draw attention away from the bride and groom (he is a close relative) but if he wishes to go shopping in one fine. I know that sounds contradictory but we wouldn’t turn up in a track suit to a formal event and he can choose a floral shirt etc to express his preferences and personality.

OP posts:
nocoolnamesleft · 16/03/2019 21:43

Why do you allow your son makeup? Surely you don't wear it yourself. After all, wearing makeup is not accepting and presenting yourself as you are...makeup is unnatural.

Headisinsand · 16/03/2019 21:57

I don’t wear make up. My eldest daughter does, her choice. Make up is obvious and non permanent. Embellishment, not permanent or hidden.

OP posts:
nocoolnamesleft · 16/03/2019 21:58

It's putting on a face. Which you apparently deplore. Can you not see the contradiction?

WorraLiberty · 16/03/2019 21:59

But he wasn't born with makeup on his face or polished nails, so you are contradicting yourself.

Live and let live I say.

You feel a certain way and parent accordingly. Others will do it differently.

There are no medals to be given for this sort of thing.

Babdoc · 16/03/2019 22:08

OP you are very lucky that modern social pressure hasn’t pushed your children onto the trans pathway.
Many kids are unhappy with gender stereotypes - some will later turn out to be gay, some are autistic, some radical feminists, and some just have different taste in clothes, but instead of just accepting that they like to be different, transgender activists try to push an agenda of puberty blocking drugs and mutilating surgery, resulting in sterility. I hope you’ve raised your kids to resist this conditioning, and to enjoy expressing their personalities in their own way.

talktoo · 16/03/2019 22:24

You have oddly fixed views on what is acceptable and what is not. The world does not revolve around your particular lines in the sand. It's not all about you. Why do you think your particular limits on visual expression are the 'right' ones?

Headisinsand · 16/03/2019 22:30

Babcoc I am lucky so far.
Two of have ASD.
Previous posters have misunderstood me. What I was trying to say is everybody should be free to be who they are and express themselves as long as not infringing on others rights. That permanent change is wrong.

OP posts:
talktoo · 16/03/2019 22:46

How is permanent change infringing on anyone else's rights???? How is someone having their nose realigned or a breast reduction or eyebrows tattooed harming anyone else's rights? And how is your objection to these not impinging on their rights to luxe as they want? Why would someone wanting straight teeth having orthodontic braces possibly bothering you? You seem dreadfully confused.

Jizzonmyface · 16/03/2019 22:53

i feel as though this is a social experiment for the dailyfail 😂😂

Sparklesocks · 16/03/2019 23:18

I understand what you’re saying about people should be able to lead their lives, but another woman deciding to get, say, breast implants has zero bearing on your life. It doesn’t make her ‘fake’ to do that if it makes her happier with her own body. You say we shouldn’t judge others but that’s exactly what you’re doing here. People’s reasons for surgeries etc are rarely as simplistic as wanting to look better in photos, so YABU for chastising everyone who makes that choice. And even if it is solely to look better in photos, again, how does that impact you?

WorraLiberty · 16/03/2019 23:45

Why is permanent change wrong but temporary makeup and nail varnish isn't?

People don't just get nose jobs to 'look good in photographs' as a rule.

But plenty of us will wear makeup and nail varnish to look good in photographs.

I don't understand your judgement here.

BejamNostalgia · 17/03/2019 00:02

So you think having a nose job infringes on other people’s rights because they might not have fancied them without the nose job??Confused

This reminds me of Prince Charles’s ears. He was apparently bullied horribly because of his jug ears all the way through school and in the press too. His parents wouldn’t let him get them pinned back even tough he and his Uncle Louis Mountbatten begged them too. His parents also said things about not being vain and accepting himself as he was. Apparently the fact they wouldn’t let him have a cheap, quick and relatively painless procedure to stop the bullying was a large factor in him being very, very resentful towards his parents and having a poor relationship with them.

I don’t see why altering something that makes you self conscious or unhappy is wrong or deceiving people.

Anyway, if you’re in a relationship secure enough to get married surely you’d know the person well enough to love them for who they were so it wouldn’t bother you if they’d had a nose job or a boob lift or something?

BigChocFrenzy · 17/03/2019 00:03

A trainer at my previous gym had facelift surgery

She had an infection afterwards under one eye that took several weeks to clear and really knocked her health
It took a long time to regain her previous level of fitness

She looked fine before, but she felt pressured to look younger than her age

BigChocFrenzy · 17/03/2019 00:05

ntbo but permanent changes are a problem if you decide later you don't like them
whereas a hair tint, makeup etc are easily reversed

wafflyversatile · 17/03/2019 00:14

Not everyone is the same as you.

Frenchmontana · 17/03/2019 00:37

That still doesnt infringe anyone else's rights.

Dramatical · 17/03/2019 00:44

I don't really get the point of your post, other than to talk about what your children do/wear/look like 🤷🏻‍♀️

SleepingStandingUp · 17/03/2019 00:56

sculpting with make up. Putting on a face and act in social media
My son wears dresses on occasion, likes make up and nail polish

So your son wears make up - changing his appearance just like you complain about but its OK cos he's a boy??

Yes too many kids are pushed towards an identification of trans when actually their just individuals.

But that has nothing to do with plastic surgery for cosmetic purposes. Grown adults can pump up or have sucked out what they want, they can chisel down or pin back whatever part of their body thry choose. If you think this someone disguises who they really are, you really need to be less obsessed with physical appearance.

Walkingdeadfangirl · 17/03/2019 03:42

YABU people should present themselves the way they want to, not the way you think they should.

violetbunny · 17/03/2019 03:43

What counts as a permanent change, OP? I wear lipstick, colour my hair and have Botox. None of that is permanent, although they all last for quite different lengths of time.

SleepingSloth · 17/03/2019 04:52

People should present themselves how they want to, it's their body so their decision.

Headisinsand · 17/03/2019 05:56

Orthodontist treatment is for deformity. Decoration is choice like many posters say. But encouraging dissatisfaction with your body because it is male or female or not how you think it should be is psychological. Society seems to be encouraging this type of dissatisfaction. I have not expressed myself well. Yes as an adult if you wish to tattoo yourself or pierce your body etc why not. You are not pretending to be something you are not, just expressing personality and preferences. When someone has to get up early to put on make up before their partner sees them “naked” or keep other changes hidden it is troubling.
Children are still developing and should be helped to accept what they are and will become not encouraged to make permanent changes which can never be reversed.
People focusing on my son wearing make up ( he doesn’t do it much but may choose to later) are missing the point. What I am trying to say with the experience of a girly girl, a girl who embraces masculinity and a very fluid boy is that children can be supported to be any where on the gender spectrum and to have other preferences without physical changes. There are men with breasts, women with excessive body hair. It is public pressure that makes these things undesirable and difficult for those with an unusual appearance.

OP posts:
HarrysOwl · 17/03/2019 06:16

I think I get what you're saying, OP. And I agree with your main point; the need the alter a physical aspect of yourself permenantly is fuelled by advertising culture.

Consumerism runs of fear; fear of missing out, fear of not being good enough, fear of not being happy enough, and advertising exploits this vulnerability to 'keep up' and be 'good enough'.

To all accept how we looked and how we were, that would need a huge ideological shift that sadly our society isn't set up for.

But I like the idea.

Myfoolishboatisleaning · 17/03/2019 06:20

No one is born ‘with a gender’.

Headisinsand · 17/03/2019 06:38

Majority of people are born with a penis or a vulva. Nothing to do with your right to choose what you do, how you behave or your preferences but part of you like your skin colour, your height, the way your voice sounds, the shape of your ears etc...

OP posts: