National Citizen Service - another opportunity for the sharp elbowed?

[Figmentofmyimagination]

I see in today’s paper that Cameron’s National Citizen Service is asking for £10 million for a rebranding. The only children I know who have been on an NCS programme are independently educated boys. Their parents spoke very positively of the NCS experience, especially its low cost. I wonder whether this is the best use of limited public funds.

TheFlis12345 I don't doubt that the young people who join an NCS programme benefit. My concern is the huge cost that people don't see because they think it only costs £50 per young person, when actually it is actually funded by tax payers.

Just to put it in context the government committed £1.5 billion to the scheme between 2013 and 2020.

From the Department for Digital, Culture, Media and Sport,
Office for Civil Society's own report in 2018, "The aggregate comparator cost per young person across all operational Phases (1-4 and acquisition) of the NCS programme is £1,006."

sorry too many actuallys in that first sentence!

So you are quick to criticise a low cost scheme for young people (who seem to have bugger all available to them) who are at an age too old for most stuff and too young for the rest.

So what do you propose instead for them? Or is it another case of I want the money spent elsewhere?

DS did this (normal state non selective school).There were lots of children from all our local ( state) schools,and probably 50/50 girls and boys.
Yes,it is cheap,we could have afforded more,but it doesn't take much thought to realised it's subsidised,because it's thought to be a good thing.
Particularly good I think if you haven't already been involved in scout/ guides/ cadets,and it covered a good range of experiences.

My son did NCS 3 years ago, he's definitely not privately educated. His wave alone (I think there were six through the summer in this region) was a huge mix of boys and girls, from all types of schools and backgrounds. I am not sure where you're getting the idea that it's for boys from privileged backgrounds only? Some of my friends have slightly younger kids who either did it last year or will be doing this year, and my middle child will most likely want to take part next year.
As I recall it, it's very widely advertised (TV, radio, press etc) plus they have representatives that go into schools and talk to kids and encourage them to sign up.

My DS did it. There were kids who turned up with their things in black bin bags when they went on the residential. They definitely weren’t posh and rich.

Yes it costs the taxpayer money but the results it gets are worth it in my view. I wish the press would talk about the positive outcomes for once. Teens who have been on NCS are proven to have a more positive outlook on life, feel more optimistic about their own future and are less likely to suffer from mental health issues after completing the course. I have spoken to teens who were miserable, lonely, isolated and even suicidal before NCS and in just 4 weeks that changed completely. Also, a lot of the courses are run by local youth organisations and so the money they are paid is reinvested in further programmes for young people locally.

It isn't cheap!!!! If you pay tax, then you are all paying £1k for every young person that does it. Do you really want to pay more for it to be rebranded? Why does it need to be rebranded? How will that benefit the young people doing the scheme?

If you are a scout, a guide, do any of the DofE Awards, take part in a uniformed group you are also proven to have a more positive outlook, be more optimistic about your future and less likely to suffer from mental health issues - and none of those programmes cost the tax payer anything.

I've just looked at The Duke of Edinburgh Award website and last year 275,988 young people did a DofE - that's nearly two thirds in one year alone of the total of NCS since 2013!

So you are quick to criticise a low cost scheme for young people (who seem to have bugger all available to them) who are at an age too old for most stuff and too young for the rest.

The government could scrap it and put the money into the D of E instead - why reinvent the wheel?

They need a rebrand as at the moment, only about 15% of eligible teens take part as it’s not seen as cool enough.

Scouts and DofE are great but there aren’t enough places available in scouts etc for all teens to join, and the cost of the equipment needed for DofE rules it out for some people (when a relative did it last year, their school charged a couple of hundred per pupil and that was before they had to buy all their own waterproof gear etc.)

DS did it last summer. It was cheap and filled up the long summer after GCSEs. He was a bit dubious about going but did enjoy it and afterwards agreed that if he hadn't done it he wouldn't have used his time so well. They raised £500 for a local charity. The students doing it were a very mixed bunch - DS is very able and confident but there was one boy in his group who had never been on a bus on his own. Lots were from inner city state schools.

He's also doing DofE - I can see the similarities but DofE is really expensive as you have to buy a lot of kit, pay for the expedition and training. I think a lot of families would be put off by the cost.

I agree with the not cool image though - that's why DS was initially dubious & hardly any one else from his school (comfortable middle class area) did it.

So after spending £1.5bn to deliver to 400,000 young people, up to £10m more should be spent to make it appear 'cool'?

Stuff like that is never 'cool'. It is a programme for teenagers run by adults, it won't be cool no matter how much you spend on it. Teenagers aren't stupid and they know that no matter how funky the video shown to them at school is, at the end of the day, they are going to spend 4 weeks doing stuff that adults think is good for them.

I'm not against NCS at all, but I really don't think it needs more money spent on it and I think it is highly unlikely that a rebrand will convince any teen it is cool!!!!!

DoE, scouts, guides etc are all very middle class and many schools don't offer DoE.

Via NCS, students get 5 days of outdoor ed - walking, camping, river gorging etc - activities that many of them have never been able to try because of opportunity and/or expense.

Then they get 5 days of accommodation, generally in uni halls, learning how to plan meals, budget for them, buy the food, and then cook it. Again, activities that are new to many 16 and 17 year-olds. My DD learned how to take a bus - looking up routes and timetables and then actually stepping on one.

They learned social skills doing work in the community, business skills through pitching for money in a dragon's den type scenario. They went into the town and spoke to members of the public to drum up support for their ideas. In 3 or 4 short weeks they gained so much - all of it designed to give them confidence and develop skills that are sadly lacking in so many of today's snowflake students.

Oh dear, that didn't go according to plan, did it OP. My neighbour's son did it and I see no evidence of them being rich.

It is open to anyone from any school you are misinformed

They’ve just been to my daughter’s independent school, and none of them wanted to do it, as they are all doing DoE. Friend’s kids at the local state school are really looking forward to it though.

They did a promotion at my college, which caters to inner-city, no-rich, non-white young people. Sounds great. I think they should work with 'at-risk' young people, e.g. those excluded from school. I wonder if they recruit at PRUs.

The government could scrap it and put the money into the D of E instead - why reinvent the wheel?

My dd has done bronze DoE - it cost me well over £100 in kit, entrance fees etc to complete the units.
NCS is cheaper and hence more available.

If you pay tax Foslady I think you will find it is more expensive! It would actually cost £1,000 for your DD to do NCS.

non-rich, not no rich!

£10,000,000 for rebranding is ridiculous. yet another government contract without any common sense. NCS is a brilliant idea because it gives kids another opportunity outside of school to shine at something. I definitely wouldn't put the money into schools. I want to see more of this sort of provision so that the square pegs have their own holes to fit into.

Its an absolute bargain and everyone I know who took part, all state educated, enjoyed it.

@Charley50 yes they recruit from some PRUs (where the schools deem it appropriate) and they also very actively recruit from specialist SEN schools, taking pupils regardless of mental or physical ability, which the majority of which things like scouts and DofE aren’t able to accommodate.